Re: [STDS-802-11-TGAX] TGax Telecon 20170406
Hello Mark,
Thanks for your comments. See
my response in-line.
Best Regards
Yonggang Fang
ZTE TX
Tel: 858-554-0387 ext 216
Mobile: 858-883-7984
From:
Mark Rison <m.rison@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To:
STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
Date:
03/31/2017 02:05 AM
Subject:
Re: [STDS-802-11-TGAX]
TGax Telecon 20170406
Sent by:
"*** 802.11
TGax - HEW - High Efficiency WLAN ***" <STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxx>
·
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/17/11-17-0340-00-00ax-cr-for-11-1-3-10.docx
- Yonggang Fang
I will not be able to attend this,
so here are some brief comments on 17/0340r0:
`
- "Rejected – See discussion
below" (and similar) is not an acceptable comment
resolution. The resolution needs
to stand alone
[YG] As a couple of comments
address to and request to change the same text, we think it would be better
to group them together. But we can separate them to make resolution stand
alone if it is possible.
- Re CIDs 5165, 6556, 9334, 9696, I
don't buy the claim that "The UL
transmission could
gain about up to 10dB".
HE ER PPDUs can only be sent with 10 MHz or 20 MHz bandwidth.
So the only gain a non-AP STA can get
from transmitting an HE ER PPDU in response
to a Beacon frame sent in an HE ER
PPDU too is the gain from concentrating the
energy into 10 MHz rather than 20 MHz.
This is not 10 dB
[YG] An non-AP HE STA can transmit
UL data in a RU such as 26-tones. There is no restriction to use HE_EXT_SU
only for UL transmission. When a non-AP HE STA transmits in 26-tone RU,
it is about 10dB improvement comparing to PPDU in 20MHz BW.
- CID 9696 asked for simulation evidence
for the benefits of HE ER beacons.
This has not been addressed
[YG] When an HE AP transmits
HE Beacon frame in HE_EXT_SU PPDU format, it can use narrower BW such 106
tone RU, and longer CP to provide more robustness of Beacon frame transmission.
It is why 11ax needs OFDMA. I will clarify this in the discussion.
- Re CIDs 7977, 7978, 9561, I don't
think it's necessary to "add the
restriction of not
sending HE Beacon and legacy Beacon at
same time" since the laws of
physics already ensure
this. However, it is necessary
to ensure the T HE Beacon TT is well-defined
to minimise power consumption at STAs
that are receiving the HE Beacons
[YG] agree. Will remove
this restriction.
- The resolution to CID 7961 needs
to address the point that the AP needs to
send a given broadcast BU twice: once
after the HE beacon (for STAs that are
tracking these only) and once after
the legacy beacon (for STAs that are
tracking these only)
[YG] see response below.
- Or are you suggesting (as the new
10.7.5.x implies) that if an AP sends
HE beacons it doesn't send legacy beacons?
Then "not schedule transmissions
of HE Beacon
at the time of legacy Beacon transmission"
makes even less sense
[YG] No, an HE AP can schedule
the legacy Beacon frame transmission or HE Beacon transmission independently.
It is not necessary to bundle them together. HE AP may be configured to
send an HE Beacon with different BSSID from legacy Beacon. Therefore, there
is no need to duplicate same content (BUs) in legacy Beacon and HE Beacon.
But this is not necessary to specify in the spec.
- "The
HE AP shall transmit buffered non-GCR-SP group addressed BUs, immediately
after HE Beacon frames, when they are DTIM Beacons frames (see 11.2.3.4)
"
is grammatically broken (spurious first
comma) and duplicates the statement
in 11.2.3.4, which is already clear
("After a DTIM, the AP shall transmit buffered
non-GCR-SP group addressed BUs, before
transmitting any individually addressed frames.")
[YG] it is modified to "An HE
AP shall transmit buffered non-GCR-SP group addressed BUs immediately after
HE Beacon frames with DTIM before transmitting any individually addressed
frames."
- "An
HE Beacon frame may not include fields/IEs that apply only to legacy STAs"
is ambiguous. Change
to "shall not" or "may
exclude" depending on what you mean
[YG] Ok. I will change to "shall
not".
- "An
HE AP may transmit HE Beacon frames and group addressed traffic
in HE_EXT_SU PHY formats "
is only
true if there are no non-HE basic rates/MCSes,
per 10.7.5.x. This needs to be
made clear
[YG] change to "An HE AP may transmit
HE Beacon frames and group addressed traffic in HE_EXT_SU PHY format using
the rate for HE Beacon frame in 10.7.5.x to ensure the BSS discoverability
..."
- "An
HE Beacon" should be "An
HE Beacon frame"
[YG] agree
- "in
HE_EXT_SU PHY formats "
should be "in HE_EXT_SU PHY
format "
[YG] agree
- "of
HE Beacon" should be "of
HE Beacon frames"
[YG] agree
- What does "to
indicate availability of HE Beacon"
mean? And "frames" is missing
[YG] In the HE Operation Parameter,
there is a bit called Dural Beacon in the current text. We propose to rename
it to HE Beacon Indication. If an HE AP is going to transmit HE Beacon,
it shall set the HE Beacon Indication to 1.
- What does "The
additional rate selection restriction for HE PPDU is defined in the clause
27.15.4.3" mean?
The grammar is poor too
[YG] change to "The additional
rate selection rule restriction for HE_EXT_SU PPDU
is defined in the clause 27.15.2 and 27.15.3"
- "high efficient (HE) beacon:
A BSS transmits beacons in HE_EXT_SU PHY format
to enable BSS discoverability and BSS
operating parameters distribution in the
whole BSS coverage." is not a
definition of a beacon, it's a definition of
behaviour. Furthermore, it's
broken: a BSS doesn't transmit anything, an
AP does
[YG] Change to "high efficiency
(HE) beacon: A Beacon frame carried in HE_EXT_SU PHY format to enable BSS
discoverability and BSS operating parameters distribution in the entire
BSS coverage"
Thanks,
Mark
--
Mark RISON, Standards Architect, WLAN
English/Esperanto/Français
Samsung Cambridge Solution Centre
Tel: +44 1223 434600
Innovation Park, Cambridge CB4 0DS
Fax: +44 1223 434601
ROYAUME UNI
WWW:
http://www.samsung.com/uk
From: *** 802.11 TGax - HEW - High
Efficiency WLAN *** [mailto:STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Osama AboulMagd
Sent: 30 March 2017 19:07
To: STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGAX] TGax Telecon 20170406
Hello All,
There is a TGax telecon scheduled for Thursday
April 06 at 20:00 ET.
Please let me know if you plan a submission.
A tentative agenda is:
·
Call
the meeting to order
·
IEEE
802 and 802.11 IPR policy and procedure
·
Attendance
reminder. Please send an e.mail to Yasuhiko Inoue (Inoue.yasuhiko@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
and/or Osama Aboul-Magd (Osama.aboulmagd@xxxxxxxxxx)
·
Announcements
·
Reminder
of the May TGax ad hoc meeting in Seoul. Korea
·
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/17/11-17-0340-00-00ax-cr-for-11-1-3-10.docx
- Yonggang Fang
·
AoB
·
Adjourn.
Teleconferences are bound by the conditions
stipulated by the documentation below. Please review them and bring up
any questions/concerns you may have before proceeding with the teleconference
IEEE Patent Policy - http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt
Patent FAQ - http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/faq.pdf
LoA Form - http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/loa.pdf
Affiliation FAQ - http://standards.ieee.org/faqs/affiliationFAQ.html
Anti-Trust FAQ - http://standards.ieee.org/resources/antitrust-guidelines.pdf
Ethics - http://www.ieee.org/portal/cms_docs/about/CoE_poster.pdf
IEEE 802.11 Working Group Operations’ Manual – https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/14/11-14-0629-16-0000-802-11-operations-manual.docx
To join the meeting:
https://join.me/IEEE802.11
Conference ID: 808-571-868
Regards;
Osama.
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