Hello Tomo,
Thanks for your reply. In my example, it also contains Ack frames. But my point we do not emphasis the role of control frames, this sequence can
be any normal sequence exchange.
Regarding a Trigger frame or a TRS Control subfield carried in a Data frame, we call them triggering PPDU. I make a modification based on your suggestion,
how about the following definition.
An MU cascading sequence is a frame exchange sequence between an AP and one or more non-AP STAs carried in an HE MU PPDU in the downlink and HE TB PPDU in the uplink
where the HE MU PPDU and the HE TB PPDU contain at least one data frame or management frame, and characterized by the exchange of Control, Data and/or Management frames in both directions. An example
of an MU cascading sequence is shown in Figure 26-5 (An example of an MU cascading sequence).
Best wishes
Ming Gan
发件人: tomo.adachi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tomo.adachi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
发送时间: 2020年4月28日
12:18
收件人: Ganming (Ming) <ming.gan@xxxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: RE: [STDS-802-11-TGAX] CR-MU Cascading
Hello Ming,
For the bad example that you showed below, UL OFDMA BA is a Control frame. So, by deleting Control frames from the definition,
that exchange won’t
apply.
And triggering non-AP STAs can be done through a Trigger frame or a TRS Control subfield carried in a Data frame. So, the
AP doesn’t
always need to transmit a Control frame.
How about saying that the MU Cascading is where an AP triggers one or more non-AP STAs to transmit UL Data/Management frames
while the AP transmits DL Data/Management frames to those STAs?
Best regards,
tomo
From: Ganming (Ming)
<ming.gan@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 12:27 PM
To: adachi tomoko(足立
朋子 ○ＲＤＣ□ＩＴ研○ＷＳＬ)
<tomo.adachi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGAX] CR-MU
Cascading
Hello Tomo,
Good interruption. Actually I also should have a discussion with you.
Regarding CID 24082, I understand the intension of MU cascading is to exchange data frames through DL MU PPDU and UL TB PPDU. However, if we delete
control frames, such as trigger frame and Ack, this sentence will be broken and can be any sequence exchange, like DL MU PPDU (to one set of STAs) + UL OFDMA BA, DL MU PPDU (to another set of STAs) + UL OFDMA BA. It can not reflect the essence of MU cascading
sequence. The essence of MU cascading sequence is trigger frame and acknowledgement frame will be multiplexd in HE MU PPDU and TB PPDU as mentioned in the proposal 15/0841r1.
Meanwhile I would like to hear further suggested modification on MU cascading definition.
Best wishes
Ming Gan
发件人:
tomo.adachi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tomo.adachi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
发送时间: 2020年4月27日
9:51
收件人: Ganming (Ming) <ming.gan@xxxxxxxxxx>;
STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: RE: [STDS-802-11-TGAX] CR-MU Cascading
Hello Ming,
Let me jump in, as I submitted a related comment, CID 24082, the one you cited below.
I think the essential feature of MU cascading is that, both AP and non-AP STAs can exchange data or management frames mutually
in a single TXOP that the AP acquired.
Transmitting acknowledgement frames at the AP is required only when the frames received solicited the acknowledgements,
so it is a subsidiary behavior.
Best regards,
tomo
From: *** 802.11 TGax
- HEW - High Efficiency WLAN *** <STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Behalf Of Ganming (Ming)
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2020 11:56 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGAX] CR-MU Cascading
Hello Mark Rison,
I see you have two resubmitted comments with same suggested change as follows, they are not the first round resubmission, at least more than two times. The following
proposed changes were discussed in TGax F2F meeting several times while you were not in the room, and the group did not think they are clear.
I think your concern is that the definition of MU cascading in the spec is not clear. I would like to hear your further opinion and other people’s opinion
An MU cascading sequence is a frame exchange sequence between an AP and one or more non-AP STAs carried in an HE MU PPDU in the downlink and HE TB PPDU in the uplink and characterized by the exchange of Control,
Data and/or Management frames in both directions. An example of an MU cascading sequence is shown in Figure 26-5 (An example of an MU cascading sequence).
Like CID 24328, you propose to add “In an MU cascading sequence at least one transmission by the AP is a triggering PPDU that contains an Ack or BlockAck frame.” It
is not indeed true if we go through the original proposal 15/0841r1 on MU-cascading motion which was passed. In slide 13, it provides an example.
|
CID |
Page |
Clause |
Comment |
Proposed Change |
|
24082 |
361.26 |
26.5.3 |
"An MU cascading sequence is a frame exchange sequence between an AP and one or more non-AP STAs carried in an HE MU PPDU in the downlink and HE TB PPDU in the uplink
and characterized by the exchange of Control, Data and/or Management frames in both directions." |
Delete "Control, " from the cited sentence. |
|
24328 |
361.25 |
26.5.3 |
"An MU cascading sequence is a frame exchange sequence between an AP and one or more non-AP STAs |
After the cited sentence add "In an MU cascading sequence at least one transmission by the AP is a triggering PPDU that contains an Ack or BlockAck frame." |
|
24329 |
361.25 |
26.5.3 |
It is not clear that in an MU cascading sequence there have to be MU PPDUs. The definition just says "characterized by the |
Delete "HE MU PPDU in the downlink and" and delete "MU " in Figure 26-5--An example of an MU cascading sequence |
|
24427 |
|
26.5.3 |
[Resubmission of comment withdrawn on D5.0] CID 20732. The resolution is vague and not responsive to the comment "Re CID 16076: the comment was valid. The normative
requirement is that cascading is defined by the use of "an A-MPDU to a non-AP STA that includes an Ack or BlockAck frame together with a Trigger frame or a frame carrying a TRS Control subfield." (342.33)" |
Change the first sentence of the referenced subclause to "An MU cascading sequence is a frame exchange sequence between an AP and a non-AP STA where at least one
transmission by the AP is a triggering PPDU that includes an acknowledgment." |
Best wishes
Ming Gan
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