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Re: [STDS-802-11] Coexistence SC agenda for Bangkok & call for contributions



--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Working Group Reflector ---

G’day Ben

 

I will start by noticing that you gave me a gender reassignment. Excellent, Andrew one day and Andrea the next! J

 

That aside, I will say that I was a little loose in my language. When I mentioned the “only game in town” I was mainly focusing on WLAN-like applications.

 

Of course, there are many other systems using the unlicensed bands, and over the years our efforts, market drivers and a little bit of luck have meant that either Wi-Fi and these systems coexist reasonably well in these bands or they have generally avoided each other in these bands. There are a small number of systems where neither option is reasonably possible, and these systems have tended to go elsewhere (but not always).

 

By focusing on WLAN, I was not commenting on the need (or otherwise) of Wi-Fi and NR-U to coexist with other systems. Rather, I was highlighting that Wi-F and NR-U need to coexist with each other as a starting point, and that IEEE 802.11 Coex SC is where this discussion is taking place within IEEE 802. IEEE 802.19 (and IEEEE 802.18) are the forums where other coexistence combinations should continue to be discussed.

 

Hope that helps mitigate your concerns

 

Andrew

 

From: Benjamin A. Rolfe <ben@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, 13 October 2018 1:20 AM
To: Andrew Myles (amyles) <amyles@xxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11] Coexistence SC agenda for Bangkok & call for contributions

 

Hi Andrea,

Thank you for the information and outreach, and specifically to those with interests in the 6 GHz band. I read this to indicate that you wish to include coexistence with all services, including other 802 wireless,  in the scope of the study group - which is a great idea IMO.  If that's the wrong read, please correct.

I think you hit a key attitude issue with your "only game in town"; depending on what "town" you mean, in most of the world this has not been a true statement for decades. There are in fact  many license exempt uses besides WiFi, and many billions of of those licensed exempt device are based upon 802 standards other than 802.11.   WiFi provides a visible label which consumers recognize, which shows up on the outside of the box.   There are 802 wireless standards enabling operation in a diverse range devices. 802.15.4 in particular is used in a dizzying array of applications where high bits/sec is not the critical performance metric, which includes some rapidly growing application areas such as secure entry.  Perhaps the reason many people feel WiFi is the "only game in town" is because in 802 we've taken coexistence seriously and consider the impacts of new standards on the operation of other 802 standards. Seriously - good coexistence is an factor in market success. One of those not noticed things until it's noticed: when you do it right it's not noticed, when we don't, being noticed is a bad thing.  We've seen this suppressing 802.11 use in applications where it's feared to be disruptive e.g. 900 MHz 11ah. It really is in "our" best interests to consider how to coexist!

Preaching to the choir I suppose, consider it an hearty endorsement of your efforts!  If there's an argument in there that helps you, better still. 

I may be able to provide a short presentation on 6 GHz coexistence at the November meeting, depending on when the SC meets.  I've not seen the consolidated schedule yet - when does your SC meet?   I promise to keep it positive.

Thanks again,

G'day

Ben

On 10/11/2018 11:01 PM, Andrew Myles (amyles) wrote:

--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Working Group Reflector ---

G’day all

 

This e-mail is for those participants of IEEE 802.11 WG who are those interested in coexistence of 802.11 with other technologies in unlicensed bands. That should include anyone who cares about the ongoing success of 802.11ac, the upcoming success of 802.11ax in both 5GHz and 6GHz bands  or the future success of 802.11 EHT!

 

Unlike in the past when Wi-Fi was the “only game in town”, the licensed radio community is looking at the extensive use of unlicensed spectrum to complement their licensed spectrum. They are also planning to leverage their LTE technology to operate in unlicensed spectrum in modes that does not require the use of licensed spectrum. I am confident that Wi-Fi can compete against these threats. However, my confidence is dependent on some concept of fair coexistence between the technologies when operating at the same time in the same channel.  

 

The IEEE 802.11 Coex SC has been working for the last two years or so to make sure this is the case. The SC will be meeting again in Bangkok in at the IEEE 802 Plenary in November. The draft agenda is available in 11-18-1729-01. The main items of interest on the draft agenda are:

·       Review of the recent ETSI BRAN meeting

o   BRAN is discussing rules for 5GHz operation in Europe

o   It is progressing slowly …

o   … which has some risks for the Wi-Fi industry

·       Review of the recent 3GPP RAN1 meeting

o   RAN is currently defining NR-U

o   A significant issue is that many RAN1 participants have very little understanding of 802.11 …

o   … and often use incorrect assertions about 802.11 to justify poor NR-U design choices

·       Discussion of proposed 802.11/RAN coexistence Workshop

o   RAN1 have agreed to the Workshop in principle …

o    … but the date and location are up in the air!

o   While those details are being sorted out …

o   … we need to start preparations

·       … and more

 

One important purpose of this e-mail is a call for contributions. The SC would particularly appreciate:

·       Submissions on RAN1 activities related to coexistence

o   Known topics include:

§  Use of 11a, common or NR-U specific preamble by NR-U

§  Non-use of LBT mechanisms for DRS (similar to a Beacon) and other management frames

§  Plans for NRU to be more aggressive in 6GHz bands where Wi-Fi has non incumbency

§ 

·       Submissions  related to the proposed 802.11/RAN coexistence Workshop

o   Possible topics include:

§  Agenda suggestions and process for the workshop

§  Topics for discussion at workshop

§ 

Please notify me ASAP if you are planning to make a submission!

 

Andrew Myles

Chair of IEEE 802.11 Coex SC

Andrew Myles
Manager, Enterprise Standards
amyles@xxxxxxxxx
Phone: +61 2 8446 1010
Mobile: +61 418 656587

Cisco Systems Limited
The Forum 201 Pacific Highway
St Leonards 2065
AUSTRALIA
Cisco.com

 

 


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