IEEE802.3ap Meetings Minutes July 1 Conference Call Attendees: john.dambrosia@tycoelectronics.com brian.seemann@xilinx.com Steve.Anderson@xilinx.com ahealey@agere.com BrianVon@FPGA.com michael.w.altmann@intel.com tpalkert@visi.com mike_resso@agilent.com william.r.peters@intel.com mike@mike-lerer.com schelto.vandoorn@intel.com zwong@altera.com rmoubarak@ti.com Richard.Wolcott@taec.toshiba.com charles_moore@agilent.com ---------------------------------------------- Joel opened the call and reviewed his agenda7/1/2004 rev002 Mike Lerer volunteered to take minutes. Weekly conference calls will continue until the July Plenary meeting in order to continue to make progress. John D'Ambrosia presented dambrosia_01_0604 This presentation reviews S parameter measurements and experiences. Joel reviewed VNA Study 28June04 rev001 Agilent comments that narrower IF bandwidth provides lower noise floor and greater dynamic range to measurements. Joel asked whether anyone had an issue with using 300 Hertz as the IF bandwidth setting. No one on the call had an issue. Joel asked whether anyone had an issue with using a Leveled Output Power of -5dBm. Bob Schaefer of Agilent asked whether we would also specify test cables for use with the test set. Cable losses may cause measurement power on the device under test to vary. Comments were made that measurement results varied with the measurement power used. Characterization of the differences is that Sdd21 Sdd22 and group delay have been seen all over the place. Generally the issues are related to differences around deep null but continue well beyond the null. . There was discussion relative to using -5dBm (355 millivolt peak to peak) as leveled output power. John D'Ambrosia remarked that he needed to review that -5dBm power level for crosstalk measurement After discussion, there was a sense that a higher output power might be needed for measure crosstalk. Bob Schaefer of Agilent will review equipment noise floor.. Joel comments that he believes the noise floor needed is below -80 db. For now we will use -5dBm (355 millivolt peak to peak) as leveled output power. A following conference call Friday July 9th at 10AM PDT will continue the discussion There was no objection to averaging =16. Joel suggested a measurement using 1600 points at 12.5 Megahertz steps. Mike Altman comments that this seems like too long test time. He also requests that first measurement point be equal to the step size so one can directly take FFT. Charles Moore says we need enough points to cover 1/4 wavelength of the line length. (About 12.5 Megahertz resolution) Joel proposed a frequency range of 50 Megahertz to 12,500 Megahertz with step size of 10.0 Megahertz John Dambrosia presented dambrosia_02_0604 which reviewed difference with respect to frequency range There was much discussion about frequency range and step size. Joel polled the folks on the call relative to 12,500 or 15,000 as a top frequency. 3 people want 12.5 4 want 15 remainder either can go either way or abstain For now a decision was made to pout a stake in the ground 50 Megahertz to 15,000 Megahertz with step size of 10.0 Megahertz (about 1496 points) Slope reversal or nulls Slope reversal of -25dBm/300Mhz followed by 25dBm/300Mhz is suspect data. "Suspect" means the following data may be invalid. Agilent comments that primary issue is with group delay Proposal to Discuss Group Delay Mask changes on the next call: +10ns to 50ns @ 12.5Ghz positive slope (Joel will extrapolate to 15 GHz) 0ns to -50ns @ 12.5Ghz negative slope (Joel will extrapolate to 15 GHz) Conference call conclusions Measurement Methodology will be as follows 300 Hz IF Bandwidth -5 dBm Leveled Output Power 16 averaging step size 10 Megahertz Frequency Range 50 to 15000 Megahertz Slope reversal as defined above Action Items for next call Review and provide feedback on above measurement methodology Review Joels new group delay proposal +10ns to 50ns @ 12.5Ghz positive slope (Joel will extrapolate to 15 GHz) 0ns to -50ns @ 12.5Ghz negative slope (Joel will extrapolate to 15 GHz) Decision use -5dBm (355 millivolt peak to peak) as leveled output power. A following conference call Friday July 9th at 10AM PDT will continue the power discussion