Re: [802.3_10SPE] AW: [802.3_10SPE] AW: [802.3_10SPE] Support for Don Pannell's proposal
Hello everyone,
I felt the urge of writing this email to clarify a few aspects, because I think there is some confusion.
1. This discussion is about tsn support for point to multipoint half duplex csma/cd networks. There is no reason to think tsn is not going to work on 10BASE-T PHYs operating in point to point mode. Therefore in 802.3cg this narrows the scope down to 10BASE-T1S when configured for multidrop operation.
2. Having tsn working with csma/cd, AFAIK, is not something that was done in the past. As you can see in Don Pennell's presentation, this is the first half duplex 10mbps csma/cd PHY that is being specified since tsn started. Thus, it's all brand new work.
3. What is being discussed is not whether this is a wanted feature or not but whether it is a problem to be addressed now in 802.3cg.
Imho, studying how tsn could work on a csma/cd network is an interesting subject and is likely going to be useful for a certain number of use cases, thus my initial support for Don's presentation.
Nevertheless, whatever we're doing in 892.3cg now does not preclude to have these features in the near future. We're actively working to have the architecture extensible. Burdening 802.3cg with something which is still under heavy technical discussion (apart from being likely out 802.3cg scope) doesn't look like to me a reasonable thing to do in any case. I see so many use cases for 10BASE-T1S even without tsn.
I then believe it's more appropriate to ensure future extensibility and possibly have a separate group addressing this specific topic.
Kind Regards,
Piergiorgio
On September 13, 2018 6:38:24 AM PDT, Bob Voss <Bob.Voss@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>The great promise of SPE in my mind is extending Ethernet across the
>entire Industrial network, gaining all of the benefits Ethernet brings
>to the application while replacing disparate legacy protocols. Chief
>among those benefits is the ability to apply TSN techniques, making
>critical data delivery more reliable. It is therefore impossible to
>rule out TSN in any area of Industrial networks.
>BV__________________________
>From: Craig Gunther <0000000820a94839-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 8:15 AM
>To: STDS-802-3-10SPE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: [802.3_10SPE] AW: [802.3_10SPE] AW: [802.3_10SPE] Support
>for Don Pannell's proposal
>
>The concern for TSN is related to shared media. Point-to-point Full
>Duplex Ethernet media should not be a problem, regardless of the speed.
>Just make sure you have the time-stamping hardware required by 802.1AS
>(gPTP).
>
>- Craig
>
>
>On Thursday, September 13, 2018, 3:06:25 PM GMT+2, Gottron, Jens
><jens.gottron@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>Hi,
>
>I am no expert for TSN but I see no reason, why 10Mbit “APL” will not
>support TSN, because it is based on the 10BASET1L PHY, which is 10Mbit
>Full Duplex.
>
>Best regards,
>Jens
>
>
>With best regards,
>Jens Gottron
>
>Siemens AG
>Process Industries and Drives Division
>Technology and Innovations
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>PD TI AT 3
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>
>Von: Marius-Petru Stanica [mailto:mariuspetru.stanica@xxxxxxxxx]
>Gesendet: Donnerstag, 13. September 2018 14:54
>An: STDS-802-3-10SPE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Betreff: Re: [802.3_10SPE] AW: [802.3_10SPE] Support for Don Pannell's
>proposal
>
>Hello all,
>
>I am coming from ABB, Drives. I am not sure how to interpret these
>emails. I would avoid saying that there is no wish to support TSN on 10
>Mbps APL, but I see some doubts.
>I am also participating in the IEEE IEC 60802 Joint Project and in the
>802.1 activities.
>I would suggest that we have a more comprehensive discussion before one
>takes such decisions.
>
>I would like to thank you all before hand.
>
>Best regards,
>Marius
>
>Fehler! Es wurde kein Dateiname angegeben.
>
>Dr. Marius-Petru STANICA
>Communications Profiles Digital Architect, Drives Products
>ABB Automation Products GmbH
>Wallstadterstraße 59
>DE-68526 Ladenburg, Germany
>Tel: +49 6203 71 2922
>Mobil: +49 171 996 12 50
>email:
>marius-petru.stanica@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:marius-petru.stanica@xxxxxxxxxx>
>
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Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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