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Re: [802.3_DIALOG] New 'Higher Speed Ethernet Consensus' Industry Connections activity

Hi Brad and all,

I would like to speak in favor of this IC effort – like many of the others, I find that a lot of folks that I speak to, both inside of my company and at industry events, standards meetings and conferences are quite eager to see something get started on the “next rate”, and the level of interest is something that I think justifies an activity to meet the need.


You have observed, quite correctly, that we haven’t done it this way in the past several HSSGs in 802.3 history, so it is worth discussing what makes this different. I think there are two things that justify a different approach:


The first is that “pre-CFI” activities have generally been private efforts among a (small) group of like-minded participants who do the work to justify the project. If they meet during 802.3 meetings, they do so informally, as a “flash mob”, using one of the meeting rooms but not advertising it on the schedule. Given the large number of participants and companies who are interested in this, however, it makes more sense to do it as an open process, where anyone interested can join – to put the room on the announced schedule of sessions at 802.3 meetings, and to have an open email list that participants can join.


The second reason, which became quite apparent during 802.3ba, is that Ethernet is part of an ecosystem and does not stand by itself. Particularly at these very high rates, we are beyond the point where anyone will use such an interface anytime soon to connect to an end station, so these interfaces are generally carrying very large aggregates. For the part of the network where the next rate will play, you need to be able to carry that new rate of Ethernet over OTN. It could be that the IC effort puts together enough information to know that we need a faster rate without knowing what that next rate should be, but it is also be the case that what the IC learns will give good information for what the next rate should be. If this occurs, it would benefit the industry to make that decision early (e.g., to make the rate decision during the CFI), since that would enable IEEE and ITU-T work to proceed independently for each organization to work on developing aligned standards in parallel.



From: Brad Booth [mailto:Brad_Booth@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:00 AM
To: STDS-802-3-DIALOG@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [802.3_DIALOG] New 'Higher Speed Ethernet Consensus' Industry Connections activity


I guess I’ll be the first of those not participating in the BWA tutorial to speak relative to this new IC effort.


The question is being raised in the industry about what is the next speed of Ethernet and when will that occur. Personally, I have been asked that question ever since we started the previous Higher Speed Study Group (HSSG) that resulted in IEEE Std. 802.3ba-2010. The Bandwidth Assessment Ad Hoc helped explore and shed light on the drivers and growth potential that exists. This was a great industry connections effort that the IEEE 802.3 Working Group gets to put its stamp on.


What is harder to understand is how an industry connections effort leads into the potential development of a call-for-interest (CFI). During my 15 years in 802.3, speed increments CFIs have always been referred to as HSSG as the study group would pick the next higher speed. Is the industry connections effort looking to build consensus on what the next speed should be for the CFI and eliminate that selection process from the study group phase of the project? Or, will the next speed consensus built within the industry connection effort be irrelevant as the HSSG will still be in charge of selection the next speed?


I’m in favor of developing the next HSSG when the time is right. I also believe that the 802.3 Working Group should understand the process of how an industry connections activity feeds into a CFI. This is new territory for 802.3 and it would seem prudent to make sure there are no false expectations or misperceptions.






Brad Booth

Director, Network Architecture

Social Media and Community Professional

Dell | Office of the CTO, Networking


office +1-512-723-7106, mobile +1-503-830-9366




From: Peter Stassar [mailto:Peter.Stassar@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:14 AM
To: STDS-802-3-DIALOG@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [802.3_DIALOG] New 'Higher Speed Ethernet Consensus' Industry Connections activity


Hi all,


I would like to express my full support for this IC activity in line with previous support messages from Pete Anslow and Mark Nowell.


Kind regards,




Peter Stassar

Technical Director

Huawei Technologies Ltd

European Research Center

Karspeldreef 4, 1101CJ Amsterdam

The Netherlands

Tel: +31 20 4300 832

Mob: +31 6 21146286


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    Subject: Re: [802.3_DIALOG] New 'Higher Speed Ethernet Consensus' Industry Connections activity

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    Thread-topic: [802.3_DIALOG] New 'Higher Speed Ethernet Consensus' Industry Connections activity


I agree with Pete. We have been seeing growing interest from numerous network operators covering SP, MSO and Data Center spaces, to have clarity on when a next higher speed of Ethernet would be available.  Concern is that it will be available in time for their projected network needs. 


The sustained network bandwidth growth, driven largely by the increase in users and the increase in user consumption (such as  video) is challenging network's ability to scale.  Built into this need for a speed step is also the challenge of ensuring a cost effective solution. 


At the last interim meeting a number of interested people got together for an ad-hoc discussion around this topic.  At the close we took a straw poll to gauge interest in starting things moving towards a next HSSG project. Results indicated that there was strong interest in kicking this off.


In light of this, I support the


On Jun 26, 2012, at 7:01 AM, "Anslow, Peter" <panslow@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


> John,

> Thanks for initiating this new 'Higher Speed Ethernet' Industry Connections activity.

> I have seen a tremendous amount of interest in higher rates of Ethernet at conferences and workshops since 802.3ba was completed, so I think that it is a good idea to start an activity within 802.3 aimed at gathering consensus on a way forward towards a future CFI on this topic.

> Regards,

> Pete Anslow | Senior Standards Advisor

> 43-51 Worship Street | London, EC2A 2DX, UK

> Direct +44 2070 125535 |

> _____________________________________________

> From: Law, David [mailto:dlaw@xxxxxx]

> Sent: 22 June 2012 08:44

> To: STDS-802-3-DIALOG@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> Subject: [802.3_DIALOG] New 'Higher Speed Ethernet Consensus' Industry Connections activity

> Dear Colleagues,

> I have received a request from John D'Ambrosia to forward the following message to the IEEE 802.3 Working Group reflector. As the IEEE 802.3 Working Group reflector is for announcements only I have also CCed the IEEE 802.3 general discussion reflector. Please therefore direct all discussions to the IEEE 802.3 general discussion reflector <stds-802-3-dilaog@xxxxxxxx>

> The IEEE 802.3 general discussion reflector is an opt-in reflector so if you wish to discuss this issue please subscribe to the IEEE 802.3 general discussion reflector, if you have not already done so, at the URL <>, or follow the discussion on the reflector email archive at the URL <>.

> Best regards,

>   David

> ------

> Dear Members of the IEEE 802.3 Working Group,

> Per the July Plenary Meeting Announcement, the Ethernet Bandwidth Assessment Ad Hoc will be seeking Working Group approval of its report. In addition, I will be working with Pete Anslow, Mark Nowell, Scott Kipp, and Peter Stassar to put on a tutorial at the July Plenary <See>.

> At the IEEE 802.3 May Interim I spoke at most of the Task Force and Study Group meetings (all but MIBs and Maintenance) regarding the future after the IEEE 802.3 BWA. I have been working with a group of approximately 60 individuals on a new 'Higher Speed Ethernet' Industry Connections activity.  The proposed scope of the activity would be to focus on building consensus related to the next speed of Ethernet for wireline applications, which will be used for the evaluation and possible development of a Call-For-Interest for the next Higher Speed Study Group. Please note that unlike the prior BWA activity, the output of this effort would be the historical records, i.e. meeting notes & presentations, of the meetings held by this Industry Connections activity.

> In the interest of full disclosure, an Industry Connections activity Initiation Document (ICAID) was submitted to the Industry Connections Committee (ICCom) for conditional approval, conditional on IEEE 802 EC endorsement in July, at its June 8th meeting. However, ICCom postponed recommending it approval until it has been endorsed by IEEE 802 EC (the sponsoring group), and it was indicated that ICCom will schedule a teleconference the Monday after the plenary, which could then be submitted for a 10 day standards board email ballot.

> Unfortunately, this will have an impact on the formative activities related to the anticipated first meeting of this new IC Activity, as well as the accompanying workshop, where the BWA findings and next steps can be discussed.

> The other option, which I have chosen to pursue, is to forward my request to the IEEE 802 EC for endorsement prior to the July Plenary. This will enable ICCom's approval recommendation sooner, as well as the final approval of the Standards Board.

> I had already requested time at the July opening agenda to give the IEEE 802.3 WG an update, but given the timing of things, wanted to send this email out, so that the members of the WG were aware of the status of my activities.

> Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

> Regards,

> John D'Ambrosia