Re: [802.3_EPOC] Channel Model meeting minutes
Duane,
I thought the consensus decision was that anyone can use any tool they want,
but that charts with parameters would be shared/distributed based on XLS
tables not for the mathematical capabilities, but for the easy entry and
retrieval of table data. That's what I thought the conclusion was.
-Victor
From: Duane Remein [mailto:Duane.Remein@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 12:49 PM
To: STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [802.3_EPOC] Channel Model meeting minutes
Marek,
Regarding attendee list please see my separate email.
About the tool discussion it appeared to me that the RF experts on the call
strongly questioned the ability of Excel to handle even a simplified channel
model (even with vBASIC extensions). Furthermore it was pointed out (as
recorded in the minutes) that GNU Octave a freeware version of MatLab is
easily available and would be the preferred modeling tool. It was also noted
that Excel, while very widely available, is not free. While I too would
personally prefer an Excel tool, I think I accurately recorded the group's
decision. Note that the minutes do record that, any MatLab model contributed
should be verified on GNU Octave.
I will ensure that this topic is on the agenda for the next call where we
can discuss it further.
Best Regards,
Duane
FutureWei Technologies Inc.
duane.remein@xxxxxxxxxx
Director, Access R&D
919 418 4741
Raleigh, NC
From: Marek Hajduczenia [mailto:marek.hajduczenia@xxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 11:29 AM
To: Duane Remein; STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [802.3_EPOC] Channel Model meeting minutes
Duane,
Sorry for beating on you again about this, but are you sure that the list of
attendees is complete? When I rejoined the call after it dropped, I was
informed there were 26 people on the call. I do not count 26 people in the
list.
It is not clear to me why people join the calls and have problems disclosing
their affiliation. Is this a big secret or something? Even if someone is
joining the call just to follow-up on what's going on, the rules are the
same for everybody - let the Chair know who you are and who you are
affiliated with.
As for the minutes, you are missing the important (I think) discussion on
the whole purpose of the ad-hoc at large. I believe (as indicated on the
call) that tables are nice to have, but they do not provide the link model
tool we are used to 802.3. I recall that many of the problems related with
PHY design in EPON were solved much easier because people had at their
disposal a simple tool in Excel, where they could plug in the numbers and
see whether their assumptions would work with a very good level of
confidence. It did not only simplify the discussions (everybody was using
the same model) but also facilitated proposals, where people would bring
whole tables of parameters for Tx and Rx devices derived from the approved
model. I fear that if the link model is limited to a few non-interactive
tables in Word or even Excel, with no facilities provided to modify them and
see results of such changes, the task of this ad-hoc will be largely missed.
I would urge the group to consider building a simple (and potentially
approximated, due to limited computational capabilities of Excel) tool
allowing people to experiment with the link definitions, observing impact of
different configuration on link feasibility, BER levels, SNR etc.
If needed, I can provide the necessary Visual Basic expertise to write the
required macros and front-end.
Note that this does not mean that we should forget about using Matlab(-like)
tools for precise simulations. However, I believe it is possible to
generalize them and create approximate models in Excel as well, for the
general consumption by the task force.
I am also concerned about the potentially proprietary nature of Matlab
models, as mentioned on the call. To me that means that results coming from
group A may be potentially incompatible with results coming from group B. We
need to be comparing apples to apples when taking decisions. For that
purpose, I would urge people to consider sharing the Matlab model (if used)
so that it can be scrutinized by the Task Force and potentially approved as
an official link model tool.
Regards
Marek
From: Duane Remein [mailto:Duane.Remein@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 01:12
To: STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [802.3_EPOC] Channel Model meeting minutes
All,
Please find attached the unapproved meeting minutes for today's call.
As always, please let me know of any corrections.
Mark,
Please post these in the Ad Hoc area.
Best Regards,
Duane
FutureWei Technologies Inc.
duane.remein@xxxxxxxxxx
Director, Access R&D
919 418 4741
Raleigh, NC
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