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Re: [STDS-802-3-EPOC] Resoruce block presentation in todays phy sub-task call



Duane, 

In EPON, we somehow get away without specifying all that and yet operators
are able to get the most of the EPON systems. Putting too many knobs is a
simple way to overcomplicate the design and then end up with
interoperability problems. I am against putting too much rope out. The
strength of the Ethernet is in simplicity and reliability, and not
complexity and configurability taken to extreme. 

Put it in different perspective - what is wrong with the current definition
of a grant, which has nothing to do with frequency bands, allocations etc.
and which was already proposed to be mapped into spectrum without upper
layers being aware of this fact? Are you trying to revert this agreement and
go towards redefinition of GATE MPCPDU structure and its meaning? 

Regards

Marek

-----Original Message-----
From: Duane Remein [mailto:Duane.Remein@xxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Friday, 28 June 2013 9:31 PM
To: STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-3-EPOC] Resoruce block presentation in todays phy
sub-task call

Eugene,
If you keep this hidden from 802.3 then there will be no opportunity for the
operator to vary this to account for the network. Is this OK with all
operators? 
I agree that there is no need for the MAC to be aware of this, I don't agree
that the upper DBA layer should necessarily be unaware of this nor that the
operator should not be able to control the RB size via MDIO should they
choose to do so.
Best Regards,
Duane

FutureWei Technologies Inc.
duane.remein@xxxxxxxxxx
Director, Access R&D
919 418 4741
Raleigh, NC


-----Original Message-----
From: Dai, Eugene (CCI-Atlanta) [mailto:Eugene.Dai@xxxxxxx] 
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 3:38 PM
To: STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-3-EPOC] Resoruce block presentation in todays phy
sub-task call

I would be careful to introduce a concept such as "resource block" or what
ever you might call it into 802.3bn. "Resource block" make sense in DOCSIS
3.1 OFDM because CMTS completely aware RF PHY. In 802.3bn, CLT/OLT does not
know or aware RF PHY OFDM parameters; the grant is based on TQ. If we go
that far open the door to let CLT/OLT aware OFDM, I am afraid it will
deviate from our original plan too much.

Eugene
________________________________________
From: Marek Hajduczenia [marek.hajduczenia@xxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 10:48 AM
To: STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-3-EPOC] Resoruce block presentation in todays phy
sub-task call

Duane,

My point is much simpler - if this new thing is essentially a grant, why not
use "grant" rather than create a new term for it ?

Marek

From: Duane Remein [mailto:Duane.Remein@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, 28 June 2013 3:22 PM
To: STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-3-EPOC] Resoruce block presentation in todays phy
sub-task call

Marek,
I would welcome your input on how to make a less confusing definition. I
would have no problem replacing GATE with grant.
Best Regards,
Duane

FutureWei Technologies Inc.
duane.remein@xxxxxxxxxx
Director, Access R&D
919 418 4741
Raleigh, NC

From: Marek Hajduczenia [mailto:marek.hajduczenia@xxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 5:42 AM
To: Duane Remein; STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [STDS-802-3-EPOC] Resoruce block presentation in todays phy
sub-task call

Duane,

Such a definition is confusing at best - you seem to assume that we allocate
specific range of spectrum via GATE message, and we can do so only in time
domain. We also do have a term already in GATE - "grant" - and I am not sure
why we need to define yet another one to speak about apparently the very
same thing.

Marek

From: Duane Remein [mailto:Duane.Remein@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013 10:38 PM
To: STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-3-EPOC] Resoruce block presentation in todays phy
sub-task call

I agree we havn't a formal definition. I would purpose something like: "a
set of sub-carriers connected in time related in frequency, but not
necessarily contigeous in frequency, allocated by a single GATE message".

Best Regards,
Duane

FutureWei Technologies Inc.
duane.remein@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:duane.remein@xxxxxxxxxx>
Director, Access R&D
919 418 4741
Raleigh, NC

From: Avi Kliger [mailto:akliger@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 1:48 AM
To:
STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-3-EPOC] Resoruce block presentation in todays phy
sub-task call

In the joint upstream pilot contribution by QCOM+BRCM we described what we
called a RB. It wasn't a "formal" definition though.

From: Marek Hajduczenia [mailto:marek.hajduczenia@xxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 1:46 AM
To:
STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-3-EPOC] Resoruce block presentation in todays phy
sub-task call

Thank you for confirmation, Syed,

It is hard for me then to understand proposals towards such an undefined
entity .... Is anybody actually planning to define this term ?

Marek

From: Syed Rahman [mailto:Syed.R@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, 26 June 2013 11:24 PM
To:
STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-3-EPOC] Resoruce block presentation in todays phy
sub-task call

Marek,

*         To the best of my knowledge, so far we have not decided on a
formal resource block definition.

*         There have been multiple presentations which talked about resource
blocks for different applications (pilots, burst markers, et cetra..)

*         Attached is one such presentation
Thanks,
Syed

From: Marek Hajduczenia [mailto:marek.hajduczenia@xxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 2:45 PM
To:
STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-3-EPOC] Resoruce block presentation in todays phy
sub-task call

Dear colleagues,

Have we ever really generated a consented definition of the whole "resource
block"? I have been looking through a number of contributions and it seems
that it is kind of give, yet I must have missed a formal definition of what
this really is. Could anybody point to where it was defined (if it was done
before) or try to come up with a consistent definition of what this is (at
best, relative to EPON for simpler comprehension) ?

Thank you in advance

Marek

From: Syed Rahman [mailto:Syed.R@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, 26 June 2013 9:05 PM
To:
STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [STDS-802-3-EPOC] Resoruce block presentation in todays phy
sub-task call



All,
Attached is the presentation I gave  in today's Phys sub-task force call.
Thanks,
Syed

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