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08/07/2006 07:36 PM
08/07/2006 12:10 PM
08/04/2006 08:28 PM
Please note that the Ethernet Alliance facilitated HSSG reflector is in the process of being shut down.
The HSSG Reflector has been set up and is ready to go. Please go to the URL below for directions on how to join the IEEE 802.3 HSSG Reflector.
In addition, please note that the HSSG website is up and running, and may be viewed at
Upon joining I would suggest forwarding this message to the IEEE 802.3 reflector. The cost model is a big one that the SG must address.
Hope you had a good vacation.
07/25/2006 04:03 PM
My apologies to John and to the list for inadvertently putting pricing data in my last post, it won't happen again :-)
I have corrected this below, so folks who wish could reply to the message.
From: Lane Patterson
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 5:53 PM
To: 'PKOLESAR@xxxxxxxxxxxx'; 'hssg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: 10GigE LR vs SR (RE: [hssg] Update of CFI Presentation to IEEE)
Very much appreciate your comments on this. As an Internet exchange point, I realize we're probably not representative of the typical single-company data center environment here, but wanted to share the reasons why SR did not make it into our operating environment. Apologies in advance if this is a bit too off-topic for the HSSG reflector.
1. We already had legacy 62.5 micron Multimode as well as SMF pulled in conduits approx 1.5km in our multi-building campus sites
2. On these campus conduit builds, MMF cost us more than 4x the price per linear foot, compared to SMF.
3. Within our data centers (sized at roughly 100K-230K sq ft), cross-connect lengths routinely hit 150m
4. There's tremendous OpEx involved in standardizing on a new type of fiber--I am checking now to see what's involved in supporting OM3 and it is about a 6 month process to evaluate, stock, productize, and train folks.
5. Most of our 10GigE customers are ISPs using Cisco or Juniper routers, and commonly request LR
6. Our cost for SR is only about 30% less than cost of LR, which is not enough to justify stocking two types of parts, spares, etc. when we can standarize on LR-only and simplify OpEx and pre-provisioning and support process.
+1 650-513-7012 (w)
+1 408-829-6464 (c)
From: PKOLESAR@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:PKOLESAR@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 4:59 PM
To: Lane Patterson; hssg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [hssg] Update of CFI Presentation to IEEE
I find it odd that Equinix has not realized the advantages of deploying SR. While its distance capability is rather limited on legacy multimode fibers, it is rated up to 300 m on OM3 (a.k.a. 850nm laser-optimized 50um) fiber, a distance sufficient to serve the vast majority of both in-building backbones and data centers.
From recent presentation materials from a major Ethernet networking gear supplier, 10GbE multimode port shipments grew to equal singlemode port shipments in 2005.
From this I conclude that multimode is providing value to a significant percentage of customers. That value includes the fact that those who have installed OM3 cabling are able to deploy either SR or LX4 to 300 m. This freedom allows the customer to choose from these PHYs based on several criteria including not only cost, but also availability, and port-type homogeniety considerations.
In most cases cost will be the primary factor. While it is true that over time the cost differential between port types compresses, the differential between SR and either LR or LX4 has been, and continues to be, quite significant, easily justifying the deployment of OM3 cabling for new buildouts.
Data center cabling must often be deployed under tight schedules. This has lead to great acceptance of solutions that provide cabling in predetermined lengths terminated with array connectors at the factory. The array terminations are compact and allow easier deployment of the pre-terminated cables. The arrays plug into fanout modules or hydra-cords for administration of duplex circuits. Factory termination can provide high-quality polish, and fanouts provide worry-free transmit-to-receive signal routing (a.k.a. polarity), along with very rapid turn up in the field because the installer simply plugs components together instead of handling the termination process on site. Virtually all of our data center projects deploy this type of solution.
There is an additional advantage to these cabling solutions. They protect the customer's investment by providing a migration path for support of parallel fiber applications, such as those defined by InfiniBand. One simply removes the fanout and administers the parallel application using array patch cords, thus reusing the cables.
TIA TR-42 has standardized these types of structured cabling solutions in TIA-568-B.1-7 "Commercial Building Telecommunications Cabling Standard, Part 1 - General Requirements, Addendum 7 - Guidelines for Maintaining Polarity Using Array Connectors". This standard provides a useful reference for committees that develop parallel fiber applications. The parallel methods defined within this standard support all the parallel applications of Fibre Channel, OIF, and InfiniBand.
An increasing installation rate of these solutions is building the installed base of cabling that not only fulfills the immediate demands of tight construction schedules, but also protects the customer's investment by providing the flexibility to be easily reconfigured for future parallel applications. And while this solution offers the same benefits to both multimode and singlemode media, 850nm laser-optimized 50um fiber represents about 80% of the cabling mix in our sales.
Given that the commonly held view regarding deployment of a higher speed Ethernet is that it will occur initially within data centers, it would be an obvious error not to define a PHY/PMD that operates over this cabling infrastructure.
CommScope Enterprise® Solutions
1300 East Lookout Drive
Richardson, TX 75082
07/20/2006 05:15 AM
As an end user, I couldn't agree more. Our view is that 10GigE has already radically changed the economics of data center/campus (LR) and metro (ER/ZR) connectivity, compared to the OC192 alternative, and somewhat limited scalability of LAG and ECMP. I would expect that 100G would be equally successful at a 4x/2.5x benefit to cost ratio.
I also agree with Aaron and Bruce's comments about PMD/PHY--the 2-10km range serves data center, in-building riser fiber, and campus environments nicely. Most early uses of 100G links will be for such aggregated trunking. In contrast, with our 10GigE experience, SR was almost completely useless with its distance limitations and eventual marginal price diff with respect to LR.
From: David Martin [mailto:dwmartin@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wed Jul 19 10:58:33 2006
Subject: RE: [hssg] Update of CFI Presentation to IEEE
Several comments were made during the CFI last night that 10GigE hasn't
yet achieved the traditional "10x rate for 3x the cost" economic
feasibility, and as such it's unlikely that a higher speed Ethernet rate
would be any more successful.
Some other comments were made that since 10GigE (and quite likely the
next rate) broke new ground as network infrastructure, rather than
traditional NICs and switch ports, the "10x rate for 3x the cost" rule
of thumb should be revisited.
In carrier transport networks, the equivalent rule has been "4x rate for
2.5x the cost". Just thought I'd pass that along for reference for when
this issue is considered.
David W. Martin
+1 613 765 2901 (esn 395)
From: John DAmbrosia [mailto:jdambrosia@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 12:37 PM
Subject: [hssg] Update of CFI Presentation to IEEE
Last night's presentation went extremely well. Approximately 200 to 220
people were present throughout the presentation.
After the presentation, the following straw polls were asked:
Straw Poll #1 - (For the Call-For-Interest)
Should a Study Group be formed for "Higher Speed Ethernet"?
Yes - 147
No - 9
Abstain - 31
Straw Poll #2 (For Participation)
I would participate in the "Higher Speed" Study Group in IEEE 802.3.
Straw Poll #3 (For Participation)
My company would support participation in the "Higher Speed" Study Group
in IEEE 802.3
Thus, the results were very positive and encouraging. This does not
mean that the Study Group has been formed yet.
A motion will be made at the IEEE 802.3 Closing Plenary on Thursday.
Thus, for those individuals who registered and are at the IEEE Plenary
this week; please make sure you stay until the motion has been made and
the vote taken. If the motion is successful on Thursday, then a request
will be made to the IEEE 802.3 EC for approval of the formation of the