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Somewhere along the way, this rules change morphed one which would let us
use technology to speed our standards process to something that will slow us
down incredibly.  

In the current rules, one kind of vote requires a 40 day letter ballot: "the
decision to submit a draft standard or a revised standard to the Sponsor
Ballot Group."  (BTW, I think the "or a revised standard" is unnecessary
since the revised standard is a draft standard until it is approved.)

This rule change requires a 40 day letter ballot for deciding any draft
standard technical issues which it defines very broadly: "Draft standard
technical issues involve the draft standard as a whole or a specific part
thereof." The effect of this rule change would be to require many (even
most?) votes that we now do at meetings to be done by 40 day letter ballot.
I don't think this was ever our intent when we proposed the need for a rule
change to cover voting between meetings.  

In the course of creating a draft standard, there are many other votes "on
draft standards" which occur.  For instance, we often take votes at meetings
to decide on objective that the draft standard must meet or to choose
between alternative proposals.  Those are "technical issues that involve the
draft standard in whole or a specific part thereof."  Working groups even
delegate those decsions to task forces preparing drafts subject to review by
the working group.  

I am voting against this rule change.

I can vote for a rule change where the category of "Draft standard technical
issues" is changed back to "The decision to submit a draft standard to the
Sponsor Ballot Group" and all other votes may occur at meetings or under the
shorter electronic ballot duration.

Further, I agree with the comment made by Bob Love with respect to the text
on quorum between plenaries.

I would like to see some minimum time specified for ballots between
meetings.  I think a working group memeber should be able to know minimum
email ballot duration so that he/she can be sure to check email often enough
to not miss a ballot.  It would be acceptable if the 802 rules required
Working Groups to specify a minimum e-mail ballot time in their rules rather
than specifying a specific time for all Working Groups.

Pat Thaler

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Carlo []
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 1999 5:51 AM
To: IEEE802

The following rule change was approved for LMSC ballot at the July Plenary
meeting. There has been some confusion on how to conduct this "paper ballot"
since it is being done via the WEB:

1) Please submit your rule change ballot comments to me at I
would like to receive these ballot comments by 1November.

2) Buzz, please distribute this rule change ballot to the IEEE 802 reflector
for comments.

3) I will assume that Bill Lidinsky and Paul Nikolich will handle
consolidating the comments and hold an ad-hoc ballot resolution meeting at
the November Plenary meeting. Jim Carlo

At the SEC meeting in Montreal on Thursday 8July 1999 the SEC approved
submitting this IEEE 802 Operating Rules change to ballot.

The proposed Rules Change deals with changes to the process for voting
procedures for a Working Group on technical issues, procedural issues and
drafts between Plenary meetings.  The changes involve the following
sections: Chair's Function Voting on Technical Issues

Attached is a pdf file showing the relevant clauses of the latest P802
Operating Rules (November 1998) with the changes indicated.  Strikethrough
text is deleted.  Underlined text is
added.  All other text is as it exists in the curent rules document. This
text was presented and discussed at a P802 Operating Rules meeting on Sunday
night, 4 July 1999 in Montreal.  This proposed rule change epresents the
output of this meeting.

The 802 rules URL is ""

Jim Carlo( Cellular:1-214-693-1776 Voice&Fax:1-214-853-5274
TI Fellow, Networking Standards at Texas Instruments
Chair, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC6 Telecom and Info Exchange Between Systems
Chair, IEEE802 LAN/MAN Standards Committee