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Re: Message from the IEEE Standards Association

Don, Judy, please consider this note as another way of looking at the word
endorsement.  I appreciate the fact that the IEEE does not formally endorse
the standard.  However, it certainly does endorse the process we use to
develop standards.  The IEEE SA must demand that any document purporting to
be something like a standard, that has IEEE's name associated with it in any
way, adheres to the IEEE endorsed standards development process.

I have seen companies in existence for decades go out of business with one
mis-step.  IEEE's reputation in the standards arena was built over a period
spanning decades, and could be ruined in a single stroke.  Please, for the
good of IEEE, and for the good of the industry that has come to rely on
IEEE's good name, don't let that happen!

Best regards,

Robert D. Love
President, LAN Connect Consultants
7105 Leveret Circle
Raleigh, NC 27615
Phone: 919 848-6773
Fax: 720 222-0900
----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Thompson <>
To: <>; <>
Cc: Montague, John E <>; IEEE802
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 2:16 PM
Subject: RE: Message from the IEEE Standards Association

> Don, Judy-
> I fully endorse John Montague's position on this, every single word. In
> addition, I would add that one of the greatest values of "the IEEE asset"
> is the ability to convene a standards forum and populate it with
> volunteers. If the SA loses the value of that asset then it loses
> Sincerely,
> Geoff Thompson, Chair IEEE 802.3 Working Group
> At 01:00 PM 8/31/00 -0400, Montague, John E wrote:
> >Don, Judy,
> >
> >I do not know the source of the definition of "Endorsement" in paragraph
> >of your message below.  Webster defines ENDORSE:
> >
> >1a: to write on the back of; esp: to sign one's name as payee on the back
> >(a check) in order to obtain the cash, check, bill, or note
> >
> >   b: to inscribe (one's signature) on a check bill, or note
> >
> >   c: to inscribe (as an official document) with a title or memorandum
> >
> >   d: to makeover to another (the value represented in a check bill or
> >by inscribing one's name on the document
> >
> >   e: to acknowledge receipt of (a sum specified) by one's signature on a
> >document
> >
> >2: to express approval of publicly and definitely <~ a mayoral candidate>
> >
> >syn see approve
> >
> >
> >There is no concept of conformity, compliance, or testing in any part of
> >this definition.  Endorse is synonymous with Approve.  The IEEE-SA places
> >the IEEE seal of approval on Standards (as well as the IEEE's literal
> >-- its logo) in an act of public approval.  I do not know how any
> >organizational action could be more precisely fit the second definition
> >Endorse to the letter and spirit of the definition 2; in sprit it is also
> >consistent with the first definition, particularly "1c".
> >
> >The formal IEEE Standards approval process through IEEE-SA, IEEE's
> >ownership of the copyright for standards developed under its governance,
> >inscription in the document's title of "IEEE Standard ..." leads rational
> >individuals to believe that the IEEE has endorsed (i.e., expressed
> >of publicly) those standards.  I believe that essentially all of the
> >audience for these documents believes they have been so endorsed.  No
> >of disclaimer can change the public opinion that these documents are
> >endorsed to be "the best that they can be."  IEEE's reputation is in fact
> >that it endorses standards are "the best that they can be."  This is
> >It derives from the development and approval process.
> >
> >Confusion in the eye of the public about what has benefited from the
> >rigorous IEEE standards development and approval process through the
> >careless application of the term "IEEE Standard," or anything confusingly
> >similar to it, will rapidly destroy the public, business, and technical
> >community confidence in IEEE Standards, past and future, and will tarnish
> >the image of the IEEE itself.  IEEE endorsement (in the above sense) is
> >and is a real asset to documents receiving it.  It is in this sense that
> >discussion about the SA/ISTO refers to IEEE endorsement.
> >
> >Thank you for considering my opinion.  I give it as a businessman reliant
> >standards, as a technologist having contributed to standards, and as one
> >has devoted three decades to standards development in many venues (IEEE
> >elsewhere) because I believe in the value of the result - endorsement by
> >recognized technical bodies representing excellence.
> >
> >John Montague
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From:   Jim Carlo []
> >Sent:   Wednesday, August 30, 2000 7:18 PM
> >To:     IEEE802
> >Subject:        FW: Message from the IEEE Standards Association
> >
> >
> >fyi.
> >
> >Jim Carlo( Cellular:1-214-693-1776 Voice&Fax:1-214-853-5274
> >TI Fellow, Networking Standards at Texas Instruments
> >Chair, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC6 Telecom and Info Exchange Between Systems
> >Chair, IEEE802 LAN/MAN Standards Committee
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: []
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 3:32 PM
> >To:;;;
> >;;;
> >;;;
> >;;;
> >
> >Subject: Message from the IEEE Standards Association
> >
> >
> >TO:
> >Bruce Eisenstein, IEEE President
> >Ken Laker, IEEE Past President
> >Joel Snyder, IEEE President Elect
> >Robert Dent, IEEE Vice President Technical Activities
> >Larry Hamerman, IEEE Region 6 Director Elect
> >Peter Staecker, IEEE Division IV Director Elect
> >Michael Lightner, IEEE Vice President Elect Technical Activities
> >Roger Sudbury, IEEE Microwave Theory and Techniques Society President
> >Roger Pollard, IEEE Microwave Theory and Techniques Society Past
> >Steve Diamond, Chair IEEE Computer Society Standards Activities Board
> >Jim Carlo, Chair IEEE Computer Society 802 Committee
> >IEEE Computer Society Standards Activities Board
> >IEEE Computer Society 802 Executive Committee
> >IEEE-SA Board of Governors
> >IEEE-ISTO Board of Directors
> >
> >
> >FROM:
> >Donald C. Loughry, President, IEEE Standards Association
> >Judith Gorman, Managing Director, IEEE Standards
> >
> >29 August 2000
> >
> >
> >Many IEEE volunteers and other members have recently received messages
> >regarding the IEEE Industry Standards and Technology Organization
> >(IEEE-ISTO) and its relationship with the IEEE. These messages have
> >resulted as part of a dialog involving an IEEE standards committee (802
> >and 802.16) and a recently announced new program of the IEEE-ISTO, the
> >Broadband Wireless Internet Forum (BWIF).
> >
> >The IEEE-SA Board of Governors and the IEEE-ISTO Board of Directors are
> >both actively involved in attempting to resolve concerns that have been
> >expressed. Both bodies want to assure all parties that the issues are
> >worked vigorously, with appropriate review by legal counsel. These two
> >boards,
> >along with other key volunteers, members, and staff, are committed to a
> >professional resolution of this situation that will be in the best
> >interests
> >of the IEEE.
> >
> >In the meantime, certain facts need to be stated concerning two key
> >policy/procedural aspects of this situation.
> >
> >1.   The right to represent the IEEE on any standards-related matter is
> >assigned to the IEEE-SA by the Bylaws of the Institute. This is as it
> >should be because of the large number of standards activities within the
> >IEEE, representing many different technologies and industry sectors.  At
> >present, 20 IEEE Technical Societies are actively developing standards
> >under the auspices of the IEEE-SA. The IEEE-SA itself oversees an
> >additional 16 Standards Coordinating Committees. Thus, any effort to
> >formally for the IEEE on standards matters must first be approved by the
> >IEEE-SA.  Committees or individuals that wish to address IEEE
> >standards-related issues on their own behalf must be explicit as to who
> >they represent.
> >
> >2.   It has been implied that the IEEE "endorses" standards in its
> >Standards Program, but in fact, the IEEE specifically does not offer that
> >category of support.  The IEEE Standards Association approves a process
> >developing standards, and devotes its oversight to guaranteeing due
> >process, the right of appeal, and other related operating principles.
> >"Endorsement" in the IEEE Standards Association could only take place in
> >conformity assessment or product certification context.  And in that
> >the IEEE would be endorsing compliance with specific requirements that
> >part of a standard's testing program.
> >
> >We welcome your comments and questions as we work to resolve this current
> >situation.  Please direct them to and
> >
> >
> >Sent on behalf of Donald C. Loughry and Judith Gorman by
> >Linda A. Gargiulo
> >Senior Administrator
> >IEEE Standards
> >445 Hoes Lane, PO Box 1331
> >Piscataway, NJ  08855-1331 USA
> >+1 732 562 3801
> >+1 732 562 1571
> >