[802SEC] policy on Closing SEC Meeting schedule
Roger and the rest of the SEC members,
After going back through the SEC meeting minutes into March of 2001, I note
that Howard Frazier did request a rules change to remove references to
Monday and Thursday SEC meetings that was approved by the SEC (see the SEC
minute thread below). I dropped the ball--I was responsible for issuing a
rules change ballot on this item after the March 2001 meeting and didn't.
This has resulted in the ad-hoc setting of the Friday closing meetings which
has caused the problem we are dealing with now. I apologize for causing
I recommend the following:
1) In deference to the working groups that have already budgeted using
Friday morning for working group business, we set the closing plenary
meeting for March 2002 to be from 1PM-6PM.
2) In deference to SEC members (like Roger) that may need to leave by 5pm
Friday afternoon, we restrict the SEC agenda items to Discussion Topics and
Information Items between 5PM and 6PM.
3) I will have a 'closing meeting time' rules change discussion 7pm-8pm
Sunday evening before the start of the March 2002 plenary.
4) I put a MI on the agenda of the Monday morning SEC meeting in March "to
set the closing SEC meeting time for July 2002"
5) Follow through on the March 2001 SEC directive to initiate a rules change
ballot on the opening&closing meeting times at the end of the March 2002
FROM THE March 2001 Monday SEC meeting (Hilton Head)
5.14 Move the Closing SEC meeting to Friday - Frazier
Frazier presents proposed text of rules change.
18.104.22.168.3 Executive Committee Representation
The chair of a hibernating Working Group may retain voting rights on the
LMSC Executive Committee for three LMSC Plenary meetings after the WG has
a) if the hibernating WG chair was the active WG chair when the WG
b) if the hibernating WG chair maintains attendance as per Retention
(22.214.171.124) with attendance at both the <<DELETE<Monday>>> opening and
<<DELETE<Thursday>>> closing Executive meeting required for Plenary meeting
PROCEDURE FOR LIMITING THE LENGTH OF THE IEEE LMSC EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE
7. <<<DELETE<The Monday morning and Thursday evening Executive Committee
meetings during the Plenary session shall end no later than 10:30AM on
Monday morning and at midnight on Thursday evening.>>>
The opening Executive Committee meeting shall have a duration of no greater
than 2.5 hours. The closing Executive Committee meeting shall have a
duration of no greater than 5 hours.
Carlo entertains motion to
Move closing SEC meeting to Friday from 8:00am to 1:00 pm effective at the
July, 2001 meeting, and initiate rules change to effect this change.
Grow says that having been a voting member in dot3, dot5, dot6, dot11, he
observes that every WG needs more task force meeting time.
Marks passes on comment from his WG members who feel that it would be more
difficult to attend closing SEC meeting if it was held on Friday morning.
Rigsbee speaks in support of motion. It would give the meeting planning
staff and the Exec Sec'y more time to prepare financial data.
FROM THE March 2001 Friday meeting (Hilton Head)
4.29 II July Closing SEC meeting - Carlo
Move the SEC meeting to 4-8pm on Friday in July.
FROM THE July 2001 Monday 8-10:30AM meeting (Portland) MINUTES
5.00 II Meeting Week Schedule - IEEE 802 - CARLO
Friday SEC meeting moved to 3-7pm. Paul asks for input on rules change to
set closing SEC meeting time.
5.01 MI SEC Friday Meeting Time - CARLO
Friday SEC meeting is 3-7pm.
FROM THE July 2001 Friday 3-7PM meeting (Portland) MINUTES
4.18 MI November Closing SEC Meeting - Carlo 5 06:08 PM
Discussion: We will need a Sunday meeting for the rules change issue.
Suggestion is to have a meeting from 1-5pm.
Comment: Surprised at how badly this meeting has gone. Doubt that moving the
meeting to 1pm will make it any better. Suggestion: 3-7 (x2), 8am - noon.
Comment: if the SEC meeting is on Friday morning, this means that SEC
committee meetings could be held Thursday evening.
Poll: 8-12: 5, 3-7:3, 1-5:0
Meeting time will be: 3pm to 7pm, since WGs are already planning on using
the mornings for meetings.
FROM THE November 2001 Monday 8-10:30AM meeting (Austin)
5.00 DT Schedule for week and Friday Plenary (3pm - 7pm) - Carlo 5 08:20 AM
[mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]On Behalf Of Roger B.
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 8:14 PM
Subject: [802SEC] policy on Closing SEC Meeting schedule
My concern with the schedule of the Closing SEC meeting is serious. I feel I
need to raise the issue to a new level of seriousness.
I object to the ad hoc process with which the schedule change has crept into
our agendas. The scheduling option is not granted to the Chair, or even to a
vote of the SEC. It is, instead, set in the 802 Rules: "The Monday morning
and Thursday evening Executive Committee meetings during the Plenary session
shall end no later than 10:30AM on Monday morning and at midnight on
As March comes around, people are considering SEC commitments that they are
willing to accept for the next two years. The 802 Plenary meetings are a
significant part of the commitment. According to the Rules, that commitment
ends at midnight Thursday. The recent convention of delaying the close until
7 pm on Friday extends that commitment by the better part of a day. Because
of flight schedules, the net effect is, in many cases, an extension of an
entire day. This is a big change. I can't say how it will affect our pool of
SEC candidates, but I can tell you that, if the closing SEC meetings were
definitively set to end at 7 pm each Friday, personal issues would not allow
me to run for re-election as 802.16 Chair.
I appeal to you to follow the Rules unless and until they are changed.
As for this March, some groups have already planned Friday morning
plenaries. If you feel it is essential to accommodate their plans on a
one-last-time basis, then I request that we still complete the SEC meeting
by 5 pm. In any case, I will be leaving at 5 pm and will request that all
802.16 motions be scheduled before 5.
>I agree that we ought to set a time and stick to it. However, we haven't
done so yet.
>The 3-7 schedule popped up in Portland on an ad hoc basis. At that meeting,
we discussed what to do about Austin. We took a pool, with the result:
>After the poll report, the minutes say "Meeting time will be: 3pm to 7pm,
since WGs are already planning on using the mornings for meetings." So, the
sentiment was for an earlier start, but it seems a decision was made in
deference to groups that had already planned (four months out) to meet
Friday morning. The decision was a one-time decision, not a permanent one.
>If we want look at precedent, there is no better place than the rules.
Let's not forget that the rules still say "The Monday morning and Thursday
evening Executive Committee meetings during the Plenary session shall end no
later than 10:30AM on Monday morning and at midnight on Thursday evening."
The Portland minutes say "Friday SEC meeting moved to 3-7pm. Paul asks for
input on rules change to set closing SEC meeting time." I think we need a
proper rules discussion to put this issue to bed.
>In the meantime, we don't have a plan.
>>Colleagues, Do we really need to replay this same discussion one more
time??? We spent half an hour of our precious SEC meeting discussing this,
and arrived at the Compromise of 3-7pm Friday. Let's not redo this again.
>>Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
>>PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
>>Seattle, WA 98124-2207
>>Ph: (425) 865-2443
>>Fx: (425) 865-6721
>>>From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]
>>>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 2:05 PM
>>>To: email@example.com; firstname.lastname@example.org
>>>Subject: RE: [802SEC] Closing SEC Meeting for St Louis
>>>I suspect that the requirement to stay an extra night (or 2 nights for
>>>working groups) to attend the Friday plenary is decreasing the pool of
>>>people who would be willing to take Executive Committee offices. Being
>>>on Monday morning already eats into the weekend on the front end and some
>>>people come out even earlier to allow for Sunday meetings.
>>>When I first started chairing 802.3, we weren't nearly as efficient as we
>>>have become partly because we didn't have the tools (no laptops and no
>>>displays other than overhead transparencies) that expedite things today.
>>>Sometimes 802.3 didn't finish until 6 PM. An hour left enough time from
>>>end of the meeting to the start of the SEC meeting though it meant I had
>>>In the interest of splitting the pain fairly, I suggest that the SEC
>>>start at 1 PM. I expect that chairs with Friday morning plenaries will
>>>that by doing as much preparation as possible before their plenary they
>>>get ready in 1 hour.
>>>And perhaps at the Monday SEC meeting in March there can be a discussion
>>>whether to continue to schedule the closing SEC for the afternoon or
>>>to go to Friday morning. I think it would be better to make that kind of
>>>decision at a plenary because of its effect on Working Group schedules.