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RE: [802SEC] policy on Closing SEC Meeting schedule

Tony, You are correct, I meant closing SEC meeting in point 1).

Roger, Vic is running the other two rules changes.  I haven't discussed with
him whether or not he will hold pre-meetings to discuss the results of the
ballot.  I recommend he does, either immediately before or after the meeting
to discuss setting the SEC meeting times.  Vic, it is your call.



-----Original Message-----
[]On Behalf Of Tony Jeffree
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 12:43 AM
Cc: 'Roger B. Marks';
Subject: Re: [802SEC] policy on Closing SEC Meeting schedule

Paul -

I take it that under point 1) below you meant to say "SEC" instead of


At 22:47 05/02/2002 -0500, Paul Nikolich wrote:

>Roger and the rest of the SEC members,
>After going back through the SEC meeting minutes into March of 2001, I note
>that Howard Frazier did request a rules change to remove references to
>Monday and Thursday SEC meetings that was approved by the SEC (see the SEC
>minute thread below).  I dropped the ball--I was responsible for issuing a
>rules change ballot on this item after the March 2001 meeting and didn't.
>This has resulted in the ad-hoc setting of the Friday closing meetings
>has caused the problem we are dealing with now.  I apologize for causing
>this confusion.
>I recommend the following:
>1) In deference to the working groups that have already budgeted using
>Friday morning for working group business, we set the closing plenary
>meeting for March 2002 to be from 1PM-6PM.
>2) In deference to SEC members (like Roger) that may need to leave by 5pm
>Friday afternoon, we restrict the SEC agenda items to Discussion Topics and
>Information Items between 5PM and 6PM.
>3) I will have a 'closing meeting time' rules change discussion 7pm-8pm
>Sunday evening before the start of the March 2002 plenary.
>4) I put a MI on the agenda of the Monday morning SEC meeting in March "to
>set the closing SEC meeting time for July 2002"
>5) Follow through on the March 2001 SEC directive to initiate a rules
>ballot on the opening&closing meeting times at the end of the March 2002
>FROM THE March 2001 Monday SEC meeting (Hilton Head)
>5.14 Move the Closing SEC meeting to Friday - Frazier
>Frazier presents proposed text of rules change.
> Executive Committee Representation
>The chair of a hibernating Working Group may retain voting rights on the
>LMSC Executive Committee for three LMSC Plenary meetings after the WG has
>a) if the hibernating WG chair was the active WG chair when the WG
>hibernated, and
>b) if the hibernating WG chair maintains attendance as per Retention
>( with attendance at both the <<DELETE<Monday>>> opening and
><<DELETE<Thursday>>> closing Executive meeting required for Plenary meeting
>Procedure 5
>7. <<<DELETE<The Monday morning and Thursday evening Executive Committee
>meetings during the Plenary session shall end no later than 10:30AM on
>Monday morning and at midnight on Thursday evening.>>>
>The opening Executive Committee meeting shall have a duration of no greater
>than 2.5 hours. The closing Executive Committee meeting shall have a
>duration of no greater than 5 hours.
>Carlo entertains motion to
>Move closing SEC meeting to Friday from 8:00am to 1:00 pm effective at the
>July, 2001 meeting, and initiate rules change to effect this change.
>Grow says that having been a voting member in dot3, dot5, dot6, dot11, he
>observes that every WG needs more task force meeting time.
>Marks passes on comment from his WG members who feel that it would be more
>difficult to attend closing SEC meeting if it was held on Friday morning.
>Rigsbee speaks in support of motion. It would give the meeting planning
>staff and the Exec Sec'y more time to prepare financial data.
>9/1/0 Approved
>FROM THE March 2001 Friday meeting (Hilton Head)
>4.29 II July Closing SEC meeting - Carlo
>Move the SEC meeting to 4-8pm on Friday in July.
>FROM THE July 2001 Monday 8-10:30AM meeting (Portland) MINUTES
>5.00 II Meeting Week Schedule - IEEE 802 - CARLO
>Friday SEC meeting moved to 3-7pm. Paul asks for input on rules change to
>set closing SEC meeting time.
>5.01 MI SEC Friday Meeting Time - CARLO
>Friday SEC meeting is 3-7pm.
>FROM THE July 2001 Friday 3-7PM meeting (Portland) MINUTES
>4.18 MI November Closing SEC Meeting - Carlo 5 06:08 PM
>Discussion: We will need a Sunday meeting for the rules change issue.
>Suggestion is to have a meeting from 1-5pm.
>Comment: Surprised at how badly this meeting has gone. Doubt that moving
>meeting to 1pm will make it any better. Suggestion: 3-7 (x2), 8am - noon.
>Comment: if the SEC meeting is on Friday morning, this means that SEC
>committee meetings could be held Thursday evening.
>Poll: 8-12: 5, 3-7:3, 1-5:0
>Meeting time will be: 3pm to 7pm, since WGs are already planning on using
>the mornings for meetings.
>FROM THE November 2001 Monday 8-10:30AM meeting (Austin)
>5.00 DT Schedule for week and Friday Plenary (3pm - 7pm) - Carlo 5 08:20 AM
>-----Original Message-----
>[]On Behalf Of Roger B.
>Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 8:14 PM
>Subject: [802SEC] policy on Closing SEC Meeting schedule
>My concern with the schedule of the Closing SEC meeting is serious. I feel
>need to raise the issue to a new level of seriousness.
>I object to the ad hoc process with which the schedule change has crept
>our agendas. The scheduling option is not granted to the Chair, or even to
>vote of the SEC. It is, instead, set in the 802 Rules: "The Monday morning
>and Thursday evening Executive Committee meetings during the Plenary
>shall end no later than 10:30AM on Monday morning and at midnight on
>Thursday evening."
>As March comes around, people are considering SEC commitments that they are
>willing to accept for the next two years. The 802 Plenary meetings are a
>significant part of the commitment. According to the Rules, that commitment
>ends at midnight Thursday. The recent convention of delaying the close
>7 pm on Friday extends that commitment by the better part of a day. Because
>of flight schedules, the net effect is, in many cases, an extension of an
>entire day. This is a big change. I can't say how it will affect our pool
>SEC candidates, but I can tell you that, if the closing SEC meetings were
>definitively set to end at 7 pm each Friday, personal issues would not
>me to run for re-election as 802.16 Chair.
>I appeal to you to follow the Rules unless and until they are changed.
>As for this March, some groups have already planned Friday morning
>plenaries. If you feel it is essential to accommodate their plans on a
>one-last-time basis, then I request that we still complete the SEC meeting
>by 5 pm. In any case, I will be leaving at 5 pm and will request that all
>802.16 motions be scheduled before 5.
> >Buzz,
> >
> >I agree that we ought to set a time and stick to it. However, we haven't
>done so yet.
> >
> >The 3-7 schedule popped up in Portland on an ad hoc basis. At that
>we discussed what to do about Austin. We took a pool, with the result:
> >
> >8-12  5
> >1-5   0
> >3-7   3
> >
> >After the poll report, the minutes say "Meeting time will be: 3pm to 7pm,
>since WGs are already planning on using the mornings for meetings." So, the
>sentiment was for an earlier start, but it seems a decision was made in
>deference to groups that had already planned (four months out) to meet
>Friday morning. The decision was a one-time decision, not a permanent one.
> >
> >If we want look at precedent, there is no better place than the rules.
>Let's not forget that the rules still say "The Monday morning and Thursday
>evening Executive Committee meetings during the Plenary session shall end
>later than 10:30AM on Monday morning and at midnight on Thursday evening."
>The Portland minutes say "Friday SEC meeting moved to 3-7pm. Paul asks for
>input on rules change to set closing SEC meeting time." I think we need a
>proper rules discussion to put this issue to bed.
> >
> >In the meantime, we don't have a plan.
> >
> >Roger
> >
> >>Colleagues,   Do we really need to replay this same discussion one more
>time??? We spent half an hour of our precious SEC meeting discussing this,
>and arrived at the Compromise of 3-7pm Friday.  Let's not redo this again.
> >>
> >>
> >>Thanx,  Buzz
> >>Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
> >>Boeing SSG
> >>PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
> >>Seattle, WA  98124-2207
> >>Ph:  (425) 865-2443
> >>Fx:  (425) 865-6721
> >>Email:
> >>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: []
> >>>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 2:05 PM
> >>>To:;
> >>>Subject: RE: [802SEC] Closing SEC Meeting for St Louis
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>All,
> >>>
> >>>I suspect that the requirement to stay an extra night (or 2 nights for
> >>>working groups) to attend the Friday plenary is decreasing the pool of
> >>>people who would be willing to take Executive Committee offices. Being
> >>>on Monday morning already eats into the weekend on the front end and
> >>>people come out even earlier to allow for Sunday meetings.
> >>>
> >>>When I first started chairing 802.3, we weren't nearly as efficient as
> >>>have become partly because we didn't have the tools (no laptops and no
> >>>displays other than overhead transparencies) that expedite things
> >>>Sometimes 802.3 didn't finish until 6 PM. An hour left enough time from
> >>>end of the meeting to the start of the SEC meeting though it meant I
> >>>hurry.
> >>>
> >>>In the interest of splitting the pain fairly, I suggest that the SEC
> >>>start at 1 PM. I expect that chairs with Friday morning plenaries will
> >>>that by doing as much preparation as possible before their plenary they
> >>>get ready in 1 hour.
> >>>
> >>>And perhaps at the Monday SEC meeting in March there can be a
> >>>whether to continue to schedule the closing SEC for the afternoon or
> >>>to go to Friday morning. I think it would be better to make that kind
> >>>decision at a plenary because of its effect on Working Group schedules.
> >>>
> >>>Pat