Re: [802SEC] Deadbeat rule change proposal
The primary purposes of this proposed rule change are to clarify the
sanctions for non payment of a meeting's registration fee and to make
those sanctions apply equally to LMSC and non LMSC sponsored meetings.
"Sponsored" in this context means financial sponsorship, i.e. the
"sponsor" being entity that is responsible for paying the expenses of
In the case of the recent January 802.1/.3 interim meeting in Vancouver,
the fees were collected by the LMSC and run through the LMSC treasury.
The LMSC was involved at this level because the hotel contract for the
meeting was with the LMSC as partial mitigation of attrition penalties
incurred at the July 2002 Plenary. The LMSC is similarly involved for
the wireless interim to be held at the same hotel in January 2004. The
second purpose of the proposed change is to make LMSC sponsorship of
interim meetings legal.
I hope this helps clarify the issues.
Thanks for your comments.
"Hayes, Vic (Vic)" wrote:
> Let me put my 2 cents in:
> In 220.127.116.11 item g of the LMSC rules we state that the Chairs of WGs can
> collect fees to cover expenses.
> The deadbeat rule as it stands deals with outstanding financial obligations
> to LMSC. A WG Chair is a function of LMSC. Hence, I do not believe that we
> need a rules change.
> Vic Hayes
> Agere Systems Nederland B.V., formerly Lucent Technologies
> Zadelstede 1-10
> 3431 JZ Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
> Phone: +31 30 609 7528 (Time Zone UTC + 1, + 2 during daylight saving time)
> FAX: +31 30 609 7556
> e-mail: email@example.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Quackenbush [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]
> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 5:12 AM
> To: IEEE 802 SEC
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Deadbeat rule change proposal
> Having written the proposed rule change, I may not be able to read it
> objectively. However, I offer the following thoughts to this discussion.
> Change to Section 2
> The change to this section was to ALLOW the LMSC Treasurer to collect
> fees from attendees at 802 sponsored interims. Strictly speaking, the
> current wording does not allow the Treasurer to collect fees for any
> interim meeting. The expenses for an 802 sponsored interim meeting ARE
> expenses of operating 802. This authorizes the Treasurer to collect
> fees for 802 sponsored interim meetings that are 802 operating expenses
> and but not collect fees for 802 meetings that are sponsored by other
> entities and are not 802 operating expenses. And since fees will not be
> collected for meetings not sponsored by 802, the funds from those two
> categories of meetings will not be comingled.
> Given the reaction to this proposed change to Section 2, I suggest that
> the sentence in question should be changed to something like
> "The LMSC Treasurer may collect fees from all attendees of any
> meeting held in conjuction with a Plenary session to cover the
> expenses of the Plenary session and the expenses of operating
> the LAN MAN Standards Committee". The LMSC Treasurer may collect
> fees from all attendees of any meeting held in conjuction with an
> LMSC sponsored interim meeting to cover the expenses of the interim
> I see no reason the make the collection of fees mandatory. The will be
> collected if they are needed.
> The objection to placing any mention of fees for interims in this
> section applies equally to any mention of fees for Plenary meetings as
> the topic of the section is the opening (Monday morning) plenary
> meeting. I simply added interims meetings to what was there to avoid
> for the moment undertaking a more extensive reorganization of the rules
> which they desperately need. The above two sentences can be moved to
> another place in the rules if that is the desire of the SEC.
> New Section 6
> This section speaks of "LMSC standards development group or subgroup
> meetings". i.e. meetings of an LMSC standards development group or
> subgroup. It says nothing about who sponsored the meetings. Therefore,
> this section applies equally to meetings sponsored by the LMSC and
> meetings sponsored by other entities.
> The last sentence of this section was added at the suggestion of another
> SEC member. I believe that Bob Grow is correct in pointing out that
> LMSC P&P 3.1,f applies here. Based on Bob's observation, the paragraph
> needs to be modified. Perhaps the sentence should simply end with
> "responsibility of the LMSC Treasurer and the LMSC Executive
> The implementation of the policy should/must consider the input of the
> WG/TAG chairs.
> Bob Love has suggested a "statue of limitations". While I am not a fan
> of letting the basters off the hook, a window of maybe 5 or 7 years
> might be useful to 802 in that it limits the length of time we need to
> maintain our records.
> Comments please.
> Geoff Thompson wrote:
> > Bill-
> > I have some general problems with your proposal.
> > RE the original form of the phrase:
> > The LMSC Treasurer may collect fees from all attendees of any meeting
> > held in conjunction with the a Plenary or Interim session to cover the
> > expenses of operating the LAN MAN Standards Committee.
> > ...probably needs to be updated from "may" to "shall".
> > Either way, I don't think the modification for interims belongs here
> > in the current context.
> > It is not the job of the LMSC Treasurer to collect fees from an
> > Interim session to cover the expenses of operating the LAN MAN
> > Standards Committee.
> > Rather, LMSC Treasurer through the conference organizer may collect
> > fees from all attendees of an interim meeting to cover the expenses of
> > the interim meeting.
> > If we go with the currently proposed text then we are signing up for
> > all sorts of grief about whose interims are supporting plenary
> > operation and whose are not.
> > Also, I am a little unhappy about a policy that is so completely rigid
> > and has no provision for input from the affected WG Chair.
> > Geoff
> > At 04:35 PM 3/3/2003 -0800, Bill Quackenbush wrote:
> > > All,
> > >
> > > Attached is my first draft of the proposed deadbeat rule changes.
> > >
> > > I have put the new material in a new section so that it applies
> > > equally
> > > to any LMSC standards development group meeting.
> > >
> > > Your comments are encouraged.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > wlq
> > >