Re: [802SEC] +++SEC EMAIL BALLOT+++ Email Ballot: Motion for WG Initial membership interpretation
I vote approve and echo Mike's sentiments
At 09:43 AM 4/21/03 -0400, Mike Takefman wrote:
>I vote approve.
>
>While I agree with everything Bill has to say, I believe
>that the common practice in WGs has been to interpret
>things the way Geoff has described. Certainly, when
>I became a new chair, that was the algorithm that was
>described to me.
>
>My suggestion is that we get off our collective posteriors
>and get the retention rules rewritten to age people off
>faster. We tried this once before and we failed to
>achieve concensus. Perhaps this situation will do the
>trick.
>
>mike
>
>Bill Quackenbush wrote:
> >
> > I vote DISAPPROVE.
> >
> > While there is clearly a problem with the LMSC P&P in the area of WG
> > membership retention when the membership is acquired by attendance at
> > the first session of a new WG, this proposed solution has a very
> > undesirable and unnecessary side effect.
> >
> > The EC already observed that there is a problem with the time it takes
> > for the current membership retention policy to remove membership from
> > inactive members (it takes too long). This proposal will allow an
> > individual who attends a SINGLE session of the new WG to remain a member
> > of that WG for a year without ever attending another session.
> > Especially in light of the current problem of removing membership from
> > inactive members, this proposed interpretation/solution makes NO sense
> > to me and is clearly not desirable.
> >
> > There is a simpler way of dealing with the issue without this ugly side
> > effect. Change the motion to:
> >
> > Section 5.1.3.2 which reads
> >
> > "Membership is retained by participating in at least two of the
> > last four Plenary session meetings. One duly constituted interim
> > Working Group or task group meeting may be substituted for one of
> > the two Plenary meetings."
> >
> > shall be interpreted as reading
> >
> > "Membership is retained by participating in at least two of the
> > last four Plenary sessions. One duly constituted interim
> > Working Group or task group meeting may be substituted for one of
> > the two Plenary meetings. This retention policy shall not be
> > applied to members of a new Working Group who acquired their
> > membership by attending the first session of the new Working Group
> > until after the closing of the first Plenary session immediately
> > following the first session of the new Working Group. Membership
> > in a new Working Group that is obtained in this manner is
> > automatically retained through the first Plenary session
> > immediately following the first session of the new
> Working Group."
> >
> > This approach has the following advantages
> >
> > 1) It eliminates the absurdity of the current policy that gives
> > membership for participation at the first session and then
> > immediately cancels that membership after the first session as the
> > participation requirement of the retention policy cannot be met.
> >
> > 2) It preserves the membership of those who continue to participate
> > in the sessions of the new WG.
> >
> > 3) It quickly removes the membership of those who do not continue
> > to participate in the sessions of the new WG. It thereby reduces
> > the problem of achieving quorum at meetings and on ballots and also
> > reduces the motivation of individuals to show for just the opening
> > session to get voting rights.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > wlq
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Paul Nikolich wrote:
> >
> > Dear SEC,
> >
> > This is a 15 day SEC email ballot on a Motion to Interpret the LMSC P&P
> > rule on Working Group Initial Membership as moved by Mat Sherman and
> > seconded by Geoff Thompson.
> >
> > The email ballot opens on Monday April 14, 2003 9PM EDT and closes
> > Thursday April 29, 2003 9PM EDT.
> >
> > Please direct your responses to the SEC reflector with a CC directly to
> > me (p.nikolich@ieee.org).
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > --Paul Nikolich
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: mjsherman@research.att.com
> > To: paul.nikolich@att.net
> > Cc: thompson@ieee.org
> > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 5:57 PM
> > Subject: Motion for WG Initial membership interpretation
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> >
> >
> > I wish to formally make a motion concerning the interpretation of the
> > current initial membership rules. The motion I would like to make is
> > as follows:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > "Motion that until the P&P revision titled "WG membership" being
> > balloted starting March 27th, 2003 is completed (estimated to occur at
> > the end of the July 2003 IEEE 802 Plenary meeting) the line in the LMSC
> > P&P section 5.1.3.2 titled "Retention" reading:
> >
> > 'Membership is retained by participating in at least two of the last
> > four Plenary session meetings.'
> >
> > Should be interpreted as reading:
> >
> > 'Membership is retained by participating in at least two of the last
> > four Plenary sessions. (An individual who attains membership by
> > participation and attendance at the first meeting of a new Working Group
> > is assumed to have the right to retain that membership by the
> > granting of credit for 'full virtual attendance' at the plenary session
> > that would be immediately previous to the first working group plenary
> > session.)'"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>--
>Michael Takefman tak@cisco.com
>Manager of Engineering, Cisco Systems
>Chair IEEE 802.17 Stds WG
>2000 Innovation Dr, Ottawa, Canada, K2K 3E8
>voice: 613-254-3399 cell:613-220-6991
Bob Heile, Ph.D
Chair, IEEE 802.15 Working Group on Wireless Personal Area Networks
Chair, ZigBee Alliance
11 Louis Road
Attleboro, MA 02703 USA
Phone: 508-222-1393
Mobile: 781-929-4832
Fax: 508-222-0515
email: bheile@ieee.org