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RE: [802SEC] +++ EC P&P Revision Ballot +++ Ballot on Precedence ---Current Results

Dear EC members,


Below is the status on the LMSC P&P Revision Ballot on Precedence.  The ballot closes tomorrow (Thursday) October 2nd at 11:59 PM EDT. Please identify any inaccuracies you detect in my status report. If you have not voted, there is less than a day to do so.  There are a lot of DNVs (Did Not Vote) as yet.  So please, get in your votes!  All comments received to date are attached.


Best Regards,





Ballot Results and comments as of 5/8/03


00 Paul Nikolich                                   DNV      

01 Geoff Thompson                                  DNV   

02 Matthew Sherman         APR

03 Buzz Rigsbee            APR    

04 Bob O'Hara              APR     

05 Bill Quackenbush                DIS 

06 Tony Jeffree            APR

07 Bob Grow                                        DNV

08 Stuart Kerry                                    DNV

09 Bob Heile               APR

10 Roger Marks             APR

11 Mike Takefman           APR  

12 Carl Stevenson                                  DNV 

13 Jim Lansford                                    DNV

14 Gary Robinson                                   DNV



            totals:      7 APR   1 DIS   0 ABS   7 DNV


10 APPROVES (2/3 majority) are required to PASS.

Ballot is failing currently.






Bill Quackenbush []                                           Sun 9/28/2003 8:24 PM


While I agree with the intent of this proposed revision, I have a number

of problems with the proposed text.


     1) It is obvious from the list of documents under which the LMSC

operates that the LMSC has an organization relationship with at least

three entities, the IEEE, the IEEE-SA and the Computer Society.

However, the is no indication in text or Figure of Section 1 of the

relationship between the LMSC, the IEEE and the IEEE-SA and there is no

indication of the relationship between the Computer Society, the IEEE

and the IEEE-SA.  It is my understanding that the relationship is not a

strict linear hierarchy and I request that these relationships be added

to the text and Figure of section 1.  Such information seems quite

appropriate for an "Overview" section.


     2) One of the documents under which the LMSC operates is the "IEEE

Financial Operations Manual" (FOM).  This document is missing from the

list and needs to be added.  I suspect that it should follow the IEEE

Polices, but you need to check on that.


     3) I think that the paragraph immediately preceding the list of

documents would be clearer and more accurate if changed to the following.


     "The operation of the LMSC is subject to regulations contained in a

number of documents including these Policies and Procedures.  The

regulating documents are identified in the following list and are listed

in their order of precedence from highest to lowest.  If any two

documents in this list give conflicting regulations, the conflict shall

be resolved in favor of the document of higher precedence.




Bill Quackenbush []                               Sun 9/28/2003 11:25 PM


And two other things.


     4) I find it rather curious that the IEEE BoD resolutions are lower in

precedence than the IEEE Bylaws and IEEE Policies and Procedures

(actually, this document is entitled the IEEE Policies, not Policies and

Procedures), but the IEEE-SA Bylaws are lower in precedence than the

IEEE-SA Operations Manual and the IEEE-SA BoG resolutions.  I find it

very difficult to believe that this is the correct order of precedence

for IEEE-SA documents.  Please check the ordering.


     5) Then there is the question of where to check to determine if the

order of precedence of these documents has changed and whether documents

have been added or removed from this list.  The source(s) of this

ordering needs to be stated.




Sherman,Matthew J (Matthew)                                            Mon 9/29/2003 12:38 PM




Thanks for the inputs.  My one question is whether your first change is really necessary.  There are (in my opinion) many flaws in how our reporting relationships to various IEEE entities are represented in the P&P.  I am not trying to correct them in this change.  It is a separate topic, and I feel out of scope given the definition of this change (adding a precedence section).  Your other requested changes I feel are in scope.





Bill Quackenbush []                               Mon 9/29/2003 12:38 PM




It is the presence of the IEEE and IEEE-SA documents in the list of

regulating documents that is being added to the P&P that now raises the

issue of the organizational relationships between the LMSC, the IEEE-SA

and the IEEE and the relationships between the Computer Society and the

IEEE-SA and the IEEE.


We can agree to disagree on this, but I believe we now need to correct

the absence of the IEEE and the IEEE-SA in the org charts and the text.










Matthew Sherman
Vice Chair, IEEE 802
Technology Consultant

Communications Technology Research
AT&T Labs - Shannon Laboratory
Room B255, Building 103
180 Park Avenue
P.O. Box 971
Florham Park, NJ 07932-0971
Phone: +1 (973) 236-6925
Fax: +1 (973) 360-5877

-----Original Message-----
From: Sherman,Matthew J (Matthew)
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 9:24 PM
Subject: [802SEC] +++ EC P&P Revision Ballot +++ Ballot on Precedence


Dear EC members,


Attached you will find the text for an EC Policies and Procedures revision ballot on Precedence.  This letter ballot was approved at the Friday, July 25, 2003 plenary session.  The scope and purpose of the changes being balloted are as given in the attached ballot document.


The ballot opens today – September 2, 2003 and closes October 2, 2003 at 11:59 PM Eastern Time (Daylight or Standard as applicable). (Remember if you do not vote or abstain it is equivalent to a DISAPPROVE vote).  Buzz, please ensure this gets sent to the "802ALL" email list as well.  WG chairs, if you haven't already done so, please invite your WG members to comment through you. 








Matthew Sherman
Vice Chair, IEEE 802
Technology Consultant

Communications Technology Research
AT&T Labs - Shannon Laboratory
Room B255, Building 103
180 Park Avenue
P.O. Box 971
Florham Park, NJ 07932-0971
Phone: +1 (973) 236-6925
Fax: +1 (973) 360-5877