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Re: [802SEC] FW: Plenary Meeting locations

The international IETF meetings that I've been at have always had a local sponser to help with the costs and logistics.
Some of the meetings have required use of a convention center with participants spread out through city hotels. This is what they did in Vienna.
In Yokohama a convention area was in the same building as the Yokohama Grand-Intercontinental hotel so it might be possible there to do a meeting more like our traditional format. The Pan Pacific Hotel is across the street and connected by a pedestrian walkway for additional hotel rooms. I think the convention center may not be owned by the hotel so that might not help the financial picture. To keep costs down the sponsors brought in food (something like one might get from a Japanese Costco) and staffed the distribution with what looked like college students. Options like this would require a local sponsor at least for logistics even if they aren't helping to fund. When we met in Enschede (sp?) we also had local help.
If we want to enable an international plenary, perhaps we should put out a call for organizations to suggest venues and help with local logistics.
-----Original Message-----
From: []On Behalf Of Tony Jeffree
Sent: Wednesday, 15 December, 2004 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: [802SEC] FW: Plenary Meeting locations

Mat -

I couldn't agree with you more, and I am glad to see that at last, after pushing to have more international locations for at least 10 years now, others as well as myself are campaigning for them as well.

The other issues that get trotted out with monotonous regularity are about finding suitable venues (large enough, networking facilities...etc); I'm getting thoroughly fed up of hearing those too. I simply don't believe that setting up international venues, even for an organization of the size we have become, is an impossible task; if we have the will and commitment to do it then I have no doubt that we will suddenly discover that there are locations where it can and will work just fine. Other organizations (the IETF for one) manage to find suitable overseas locations. It may well make the exercise more expensive; if so, then we should recognize that as the cost of doing business.

As you rightly say, there is a cost to making international standards; one of those costs is that, as an organization, we have to be seen to be operating in a non-US centric way, and organize ourselves accordingly. The potential consequences, if we fail to do that, can be seen in the recent issues over 802.11 security - we will suddenly find that what we fondly consider to be "our" business is being done elsewhere, and there won't be a thing we can do about it.


At 04:05 15/12/2004, Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA) wrote:
I've been pushing to have more international locations for at least 8 months now.  The biggest issue I've heard is costs.  I really don't want to hear that issue any more.  I think there is a cost associated with being an "International" standards organization, and we have to face it.  I voted against some locations at the last meeting partly because no international options were presented.  In fact, only one option was presented for each session location.  I don't think this is acceptable, and I don't think we should even consider voting on the location of a session unless multiple options are available.  Further I think at least one international option per session should be presented before we vote to approve a session location. I'd also like to see us insist on one international plenary a year.  I recognize this will raise costs, and add complexity, but I think it is part of the cost of being an international standards body, and we have to face it.

Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
Senior Member Technical Staff
Office: +1 973.633.6344

From: [] On Behalf Of Stuart Kerry
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 3:24 PM
Subject: [802SEC] FW: Plenary Meeting locations
802 ExCom Members,
I am forwarding the attached email to you all from a member of my Working Group (Bruce Kraemer), who raises genuine concerns over the locations of future 802 Plenary sessions. He has addressed an issue that has been raised that is dear to my heart in connection with our recent ISO effort, which respect to our work as an International body, and therefore I offer this to you in support, for your comments and views.
I also ask that you add Bruce to your email replies as he is not on the ExCom reflector.
/ Stuart



Stuart J. Kerry

Chair, IEEE 802.11 WLANs WG


Philips Semiconductors, Inc.

1109 McKay Drive, M/S 48A SJ,

San Jose, CA 95131-1706,

United States of America.


Ph : +1 (408) 474-7356

Fax: +1 (408) 474-5343

Cell: +1 (408) 348-3171



From: Bruce Kraemer []
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 6:10 AM
Cc:;;; Stuart Kerry
Subject: Plenary Meeting locations
Dear SEC,
  1. I was checking meeting dates and noticed that all of the upcoming 802 Plenaries are scheduled for US locations through 2009! (I include Vancouver)
  1. I also noted the following news article last week from China Tech News. While highly biased it does illustrate my point.
WAPI Proposal Finally Acknowledged By International Organization
December 9, 2004
After many ups and downs, the Chinese-sponsored WAPI (Wireless LAN Authentication and Privacy Infrastructure) standard has seen a new twist--it has finally been acknowledged by the International Standardization Organization during the ISO/IEC JTC1 SC6 session.
WAPI will be pushed within ISO/IEC JTC1 SC6 along with America's IEEE 802.11i, and WAPI will be put on the agenda of the SC 6 WG1 meeting scheduled for February 2005.
Local reports say that the Chinese delegation successfully made their bid by forcing the US side to issue a statement that both WAPI and 802.11i can be deployed together.
  1. Although the IEEE 802 may wish to call itself an inter-national standards body it has been pointed out many times that such a view is not universally held. 802 needs to seriously consider changing meeting venues as one means to back up the rhetoric. The individual working groups have been more proactive in distributing their meeting locations which obviously helps but is not sufficient. Please consider including inter-national 802 plenary  locations as soon as possible.
Bruce Kraemer
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---------- This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. This list is maintained by Listserv.