Re: [802SEC] +++ LMSC P&P Revision Ballot +++ WG Voting Rules
The intent of the restriction is merely to preserve the sense of Chair impartiality by only allowing him to take positions on evenly split issues (e.g. a tie-breaker or maker). The Chair usually refrains from taking positions For or Against during discussion for the same reason. His voting rights are in no way impeded because he can vote whenever it WOULD make a difference.
Thanx, Buzz
Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing - SSG
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA 98124-2207
(425) 865-2443 Fx: (425) 865-6721
Cell: (425) 417-1022
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Shellhammer, Stephen J [mailto:stephen.j.shellhammer@INTEL.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 4:04 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++ LMSC P&P Revision Ballot +++ WG Voting Rules
Bob,
Thanks. That seems to be consistent with my reading also. So currently the EC chair and the WG chair have different voting rights.
It was pointed out to me that letting the chair vote or letting the chair vote when it changes the outcome give the chair essentially the same power, since if he does not vote when it does not change the results, it is no big deal.
Regards,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Grow, Bob
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 3:47 PM
To: Shellhammer, Stephen J; STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: RE: [802SEC] +++ LMSC P&P Revision Ballot +++ WG Voting Rules
Steve:
The LMSC rules and now P&P have allowed a WG chair to vote at meetings as long as I remember (7.2.4.2.1), but at least for some time, have not granted the LMSC Chair the same privilege on EC matters (7.1.4). That might be the source of confusion, WG Chair vrs. LMSC Chair.
In looking up the references though, I see after rereading, the text in 7.2.4.2.1 neither permits me nor forbids me from voting outside a meeting (e.g., letter ballot, WG EC required approvals, etc.)
--Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org]
On Behalf Of Shellhammer, Stephen J
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 11:25 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++ LMSC P&P Revision Ballot +++ WG Voting Rules
Mike,
I guess I need some background on this. During my time in IEEE 802 I have always understood that the Chair does not vote unless it changes the outcome. Is this more of a tradition than a rule? Maybe it is a rule in some working groups and not others. Anyone else have information of whether the individual working groups have rules that differ from the 802 rules? Maybe that is where I picked it up from.
Also, I checked Roberts Rules and it states that the chair only votes
1) On ballots
2) If the chair's vote will change the result of the vote.
I now feel like a real member of the EC now that I am quoting Roberts Rules :)
Comments?
Regards,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Takefman [mailto:tak@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 3:34 AM
To: Shellhammer, Stephen J
Cc: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++ LMSC P&P Revision Ballot +++ WG Voting Rules
I disagree with Steve on this one, a WG chair has
always been able to vote at meetings on all issues
unless otherwise amended by WG rules.
Personally, I refuse to be disinfranchised from
making technical decisions at meetings.
mike
Shellhammer, Stephen J wrote:
> Matt,
>
>
>
> I vote Disapprove.
>
>
>
> My comments
>
>
>
> Procedural matters put by the Chair to the group may be decided by a
> majority vote.
>
>
>
> This is vague. Procedure matters are either decided by a
> majority or not. Saying it ?may? be decided by majority implies that
> the chair can choose between 75% and a majority. The text should read
> ?Procedural matters put by the Chair to the group are decided by a
majority?
>
>
>
> The Working Group Chair may vote at meetings.
>
>
>
> This implies that the Chair can vote on any matter during
a
> meeting. It is my impression that the rules typically only allow the
> Chair to vote if the Chair?s vote changes the outcome of the vote. I
> believe that the rules should read in that manner. I believe the 802
> Chair voting rules are that way.
>
>
>
> Numerical vote tallies must be taken on all matters that
> will be brought before the EC.
>
>
>
> Good. I like that.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org
[mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
> *Sent:* Friday, January 07, 2005 9:02 PM
> *To:* STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
> *Subject:* [802SEC] +++ LMSC P&P Revision Ballot +++ WG Voting Rules
>
>
>
> Dear EC members,
>
> Attached you will find the text for an LMSC P&P revision ballot on WG
> Voting Rules. This ballot was approved at the Friday November 19, 2004
> EC meeting. The text is identical to that presented at the meeting.
The
> purpose and rationale for the ballot are as given in the attached
ballot
> document.
>
> Ballot Duration: 1/8/2005 - 2/8/2005 @ 11:59 PM EST
>
> WG/TAG chairs, please distribute this P&P revision ballot to your
> groups, and invite them to comment through you.
>
> Thanks & Regards,
>
> Mat
>
> <<802.0-WG_Voting_Rules-P&P_Revision_ballot.pdf>>
>
> Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
>
> Senior Member Technical Staff
>
> BAE SYSTEMS, CNIR
>
> Office: +1 973.633.6344
>
> email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
>
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--
Michael Takefman tak@cisco.com
Distinguished Engineer, Cisco Systems
Chair IEEE 802.17 Stds WG
3000 Innovation Dr, Ottawa, Canada, K2K 3E8
voice: 613-254-3399 cell:613-220-6991
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This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. This list is maintained by Listserv.
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This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector. This list is maintained by Listserv.