Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005

["Rigsbee, Everett O" <everett.o.rigsbee@BOEING.COM>]

Carl,  Whoa, we are not proposing anything to limit our b & g coverage, far from it.  What we ARE proposing is to encourage some of the plethora of b-only clients to consider upgrading to a tri-mode card because every one of those that moves to an "a"-capable card lightens the congestion for those who are trying to use b & g.  What I have learned is that having too many 11b's spoils it for those who have g by preventing them from ever getting go faster than 11 Mb/s.  So where g is great for lightly loaded access nets like home systems, it is not much help for densely populated environs where there are already an abundance of b-only clients.  So by encouraging more of our b-only folks to trade-up to tri-mode where you can get to the lightly loaded 5Ghz "a" segments, you unload the b & g segments at 2.4Ghz to be able to run more reliably with less congestion and interference.  So this is a proposal to enhance our capacities at b & g, NOT something to undercut them.  

If it's any consolation to you, my nearly-new Dell D-600 notebook is also b & g only (an admitted major oversight on Boeing's part, but we are now issuing D610 notebooks that are Tri-Mode capable).  I will be permitted to upgrade to Tri-Mode since we are desparately trying to get more of our folks onto our lightly loaded 11a access nets, especially if I don't have to ask Boeing for the money to do it.  Getting a freebie upgrade to a reasonable 11a-capable Tri-Mode card would be a slam-dunk for approval, but an upgrade to Moe & Larry's homegrown Wireles Windfall Widget would not.  Boeing expects me to use reasonable caution in choosing a proven-compatible network card for an upgrade.  

Thanx,  Buzz
Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing - SSG
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA  98124-2207
(425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
Cell: (425) 417-1022
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Carl R. Stevenson [mailto:wk3c@wk3c.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 7:37 PM
To: Rigsbee, Everett O; STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: RE: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005


Buzz,

My notebook (quite new) is .11b/g ... No "a" ... And I'm not planning on moving to "a" any time soon.

Let's be careful not to do anything that will compromise our b/g coverage ... We should not be "forcing" folks to use "a" by abandoning b/g.  Many people don't have the option to control their own destiny on company-owned machines - the IT department "rules the roost."

Carl
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rigsbee, Everett O [mailto:everett.o.rigsbee@BOEING.COM]
> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 1:31 PM
> To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for 
> Network Equipment Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005
> 
> Michael,  I do believe the world is gradually moving in that
> direction but a significant portion of todays WLAN access 
> nets are still 802.11b only.  Dell D600 still makes the 
> Tri-Mode card an extra-cost option but the amount is 
> negligible for anyone except a company purchasing officer.  
> However, I continue to be surprised at how many supposedly 
> "Knowledgeable Sources" are still recommend buying just 
> 802.11b "because it works everywhere."  (so do b,g and 
> tri-mode and they work better where they can, duhhh???).  Our 
> statistics show that less than 10% of our attendees currently 
> use 802.11a and so we tend to experience severe 802.11b 
> congestion in our larger, high-density meetings.  
> 
> What we're looking to do is somehow encourage many of our
> attendees to move up to 802.11a capability where there is a 
> great deal more headroom for dense settings (12 channels vs. 
> 3, and 54Mb/s vs. 11mb/s) in the short term (i.e. by next plenary).  
> 
> Our next step will be to add security.
> 
> Thanx,  Buzz
> Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
> Boeing - SSG
> PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
> Seattle, WA  98124-2207
> (425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
> Cell: (425) 417-1022
> everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Lynch [mailto:mjlynch@NORTEL.COM]
> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 9:54 AM
> To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for
> Network Equipment Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005
> 
> 
> I have a laptop with internal a/b/g. It is seamless and
> normally the only way I know what network I'm on is if I go and look.
> 
> Works fine. I wonder how many others attending have the same
> built-in system? I have seen a lot of Dell 600s in our meetings.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
> [mailto:matthew.sherman@BAESYSTEMS.COM] 
> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 11:47
> To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for 
> Network Equipment
> Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005
> 
> 
> Frankly I have an 802.11a card and rarely use it.  I find
> that the integrated 802.11g card in my primary laptop works 
> fine normally, so it is more trouble than it is worth to 
> reach into my bag to install and configure the 11a card.  It 
> may be convenient for the network provider to use 802.11a, 
> but less so for the user.  
> 
> I'll note, that when I ran this 11a card under WIN2K the
> 802.11a it regularly crashed my computer, which is why I 
> rarely used it.  I could never get the card provider to fix 
> the problem.  It works fine under XP I believe, but if 
> someone else wound up with this network card (which would 
> cause random crashes on my machine often losing significant 
> data under WIN2K) I can see the liability issues. 
> 
> I have another card that runs fine in any computer except a
> Dell D600 (which of course is all we field at work).  While 
> it does not cause system crashes it freezes the machine 
> completely until you eject the card.  The funny thing is that 
> while it is apparently a Dell design flaw, only certain 
> network cards exhibit the problem.  There is a particular 
> reference design that I find this problem follows.  I think I 
> purchased the first cards based on that reference design.  I 
> complained to the provider of those cards and (after several 
> months) they developed a work around.  I recently purchased a 
> card from a different provider that I know is based on the 
> same reference design since as soon as I popped it into my 
> D600 exhibited the same exact symptoms.  I started to 
> complain to the card provider, but quickly realized this was 
> going to be another 4 month cycle of finger pointing, so I 
> never even bothered to get a fix.  It happens to be a 
> fantastic design except for that one bug (whi!
>  ch actually is in the computer, not the card), so I just 
> don't use that card in any of my D600's.  I do sometimes plug 
> in that card (which I need a little extra range) when I'm on the road.
> 
> Moral of the story - There's a lot of gotya's out there.  Be
> very wary!
> 
> Mat
> 
> PS - Somehow I feel there should be a Bugs Bunny joke after
> that last line...
> 
> Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
> Senior Member Technical Staff
> BAE SYSTEMS, CNIR
> Office: +1 973.633.6344
> email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rigsbee, Everett O [mailto:everett.o.rigsbee@BOEING.COM]
> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 12:27 PM
> To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for 
> Network Equipment
> Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005
> 
> John,  I believe the motion gives permission to acquire the
> 802.11a modules and direction for us to come up with a 
> proposal for how to proceed on encouraging 802.11a usage 
> (whether it is FREE or not) and certainly your option would 
> be one of those considered.  Whatever we come up with for the 
> latter the EC will have a final review and approve before we 
> do anything.  
> 
> So let's complete the motion and then explore our options for
> encouraging 802.11a usage.  
> 
> Thanx,  Buzz
> Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
> Boeing - SSG
> PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
> Seattle, WA  98124-2207
> (425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
> Cell: (425) 417-1022
> everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Hawkins [mailto:jhawkins@NORTEL.COM]
> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 5:38 AM
> To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for 
> Network Equipment
> Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005
> 
> 
> I'm not sure there's a mechanism for this now that the ballot
> is out but... Can we hold off on this a few days?
> 
> I have a potential source for FREE APs. I'm trying to
> determine with Tim, whether they would measure up to his 
> standards. They are A/B/G's, SNMP manageable, etc... but the 
> devil's in the details.
> 
> And best of all they will be FREE! ! !
> 
> Can I have a few days to look into this?
> 
> (the budget needs all the help it can get).
> 
> john
> 
> P.S. If this offer for FREE APs doesn't come to pass, I still
> have some reservations (even though I agreed to second). I 
> would want to see a budget (no blank checks please) and I 
> still have reservations about giving away wireless cards 
> (again, budget, and liability concerns).
> 
> john
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Nikolich [mailto:paul.nikolich@ATT.NET]
> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 6:49 PM
> To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
> Subject: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ Motion for Network Equipment
> Upgradesl+++ends 19 August 2005
> 
> 
> Dear EC Members,
> 
> This is a email ballot to make a determination on the below motion.
> 
> Motion:
> "Whereas our Network Manager, Tim Godfrey, has recommended 
> that we proceed with acquisition of the 802.11a modules for 
> our Cisco 1200 APs that are not currently so equipped, and 
> that we make an effort to encourage our attendees to migrate 
> to 802.11a for reduced congestion:  
>  
> 
> I move that we proceed to acquire those additional 802.11a
> modules (20), and further that we investigate a promotional 
> deal to encourage more of our attendees to upgrade to 
> Tri-Mode (802.11b, 11g, 11a) interface cards, which would 
> also allow us to regulate client transmit power levels in 
> dense configurations.  Terms of deal will be reviewed with 
> the Network Services Advisory Committee, and presented for 
> final approval by the 802 EC prior to implementation." 
> 
> 
> Moved: Rigsbee
> Second: Hawkins
> 
> The ballot opens 7PM ET Sunday 24 July 2005 and closes Friday
> 19 August 2005 
> 2005.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> --Paul Nikolich
> 
> 
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