Re: [802SEC] Comment resolution on LMSC P&P ballot titled 'LMSCOrganization'
At least one suggestion that came up during a previous telecon on this
subject was that the initial membership of a new WG should be established
in exactly the same way as membership in an established WG - i.e., that you
would gain voting membership at the 3rd Plenary attended (2nd if there was
an interim in between). The Chair would be an EC appointed position until
such a time as the WG had voting members and could therefore hold elections.
I think this idea has merit.
Regards,
Tony
At 00:47 22/10/2005, Grow, Bob wrote:
>I had interim meeting responsibilities that prevented me joining the
>call. While I agree that when the WG is formed is ambiguous, making it
>explicitly clear that the formation is immediate creates a chicken and
>egg problem. A few corner cases to consider (this this either
>complicates or does nothing to address).
>
>7.2.3.1 the initial meeting and membership has been a thorny one with
>mulitple problems. I believe thout it attempts to create the WG at the
>first meeting, not immediately. With the change you have a WG on PAR
>approval, but no one is a member of the WG.
>
>There is no stipulation that the initial meeting must be at a plenary
>meeting. Therefore, for example, if a group wanted to meet in May after
>March PAR approval, would that interim meeting be the one where
>membership is established. Yet, if that is a WG meeting, it can't have
>elections since 7.2.2 only allows Chairs to be elected at a plenary
>meeting.
>
>If we are going to fix it, I don't think this is the best way. My
>preferences:
>
>1. The LMSC Chair can appoint an initial Chair who has responsibility
>to direct the organization of the WG.
>2. The initial session of a WG should be at a plenary.
>3. The agenda of the initial session whould include election of a Chair
>and Vice Chair. I favor those elections being at the end of the session
>after 75% session participation could be measured.
>4. Obviously with the above, I would change "participate in the first
>meeting" to "All persons satisfying 75% participation for the first
>session become members of the Working Group." Mandating the election
>for the final meeting of the session allows WG membership to be
>established and reduces "packing the room" problems for the initial
>election.
>5. Consistent with subsequent elections, the newly elected Chair does
>not take office until confirmed by the EC.
>6. The bottom line then is that the WG doesn't exist until its
>organizational meeting.
>
>--Bob
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Pat Thaler [mailto:pat_thaler@AGILENT.COM]
>Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:35 PM
>To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
>Subject: Re: [802SEC] Comment resolution on LMSC P&P ballot titled
>'LMSCOrganization'
>
>I have no objection. Roger's text addresses the concerns about the
>language that were raised during the meeting, i.e. it replaces the
>somewhat ambiguous "where appropriate" with a definition of when it
>happens. Pat
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
>[mailto:matthew.sherman@BAESYSTEMS.COM]
>Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 4:37 AM
>To: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
>Subject: Re: [802SEC] Comment resolution on LMSC P&P ballot titled
>'LMSCOrganization'
>
>Folks,
>
>Are there any objections to Roger's comments? I have none, and will
>implement them in an updated resolution next week if I have heard no
>objection.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mat
>
>Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
>Senior Member Technical Staff
>BAE SYSTEMS, CNIR
>Office: +1 973.633.6344
>email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Roger B. Marks [mailto:r.b.marks@ieee.org]
>Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 1:48 AM
>To: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
>Cc: stds-802-sec@ieee.org
>Subject: Re: [802SEC] Comment resolution on LMSC P&P ballot titled
>'LMSCOrganization'
>
>Mat,
>
>I'm finding the color-coding tough to decipher.
>So, please tell me if this version would
>introduce this line:
>
>"When appropriate, a new working group is formed
>following approval of a PAR by the IEEE-SA
>Standards Board."
>
>I think that this language would waste an
>opportunity to clarify the text. The P&P has
>always been ambiguous on this issue, and I think
>this language still is. Does it mean that a new
>WG is effective immediately upon the PAR
>approval? Or does it mean that the EC can form a
>new WG after the PAR is approved?
>
>I think it should mean the former. The name of
>the WG is an element of the PAR. If the SASB
>approves a PAR that was forwarded by 802 and that
>includes the name of a WG that had not previously
>existed, then I think the WG should come into
>existence immediately. There is no point to defer
>the decision, because the EC already made the
>decision when it forwarded the PAR.
>
>So, I would suggest this language: "If the
>IEEE-SA Standards Board approves a PAR, forwarded
>by the LMSC, that assigns the work to a new LMSC
>Working Group, that Working Group shall
>immediately come into existence."
>
>Another comment: "A study group may meet for up
>to two plenary cycles, at which point a PAR is
>expected to be submitted to the EC for
>consideration." should be moved to the section on
>Study Groups. A SG reading the P&P could easily
>miss this instruction entirely if it sits under
>7.2.
>
>Roger
>
>
>At 21:44 -0400 2005-10-16, Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA) wrote:
> >Folks,
> >
> >
> >
> >We had a very low turnout on Tuesday (Thanks Pat and Steve!). However
> >we reviewed the 'LMSC Organization' and sub-ballot titled 'when
> >appropriate'. We decided to slightly modify the first line of 'LMSC
> >Organization" with 'When appropriate' and eliminate the sub ballot. We
> >reviewed the entire document, and did not see any other issues. Please
> >review the LMSC Organization ballot. It is identical to what we had in
> >July except for the one change mentioned. I assume if I hear nothing
> >back in the next week or so that you will all support it in November!
> >
> >
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >
> >
> >Mat
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >PS - I will review all the changes in light of the updated P&P and do
> >editorial updates to the P&P ballots to reflect those changes prior to
> >the Plenary.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Matthew Sherman, Ph.D.
> >Senior Member Technical Staff
> >BAE SYSTEMS, CNIR
> >Office: +1 973.633.6344
> >email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----------
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> >Committee email reflector. This list is
> >maintained by Listserv.
> >
> >Content-Type: application/msword;
> >
>name="802.0-WG_LMSC_Organization_-_Proposed_Resolutions_051012.doc"
> >Content-Description:
> >802.0-WG_LMSC_Organization_-_Proposed_Resolutions_051012.doc
> >Content-Disposition: attachment;
> >
>filename="802.0-WG_LMSC_Organization_-_Proposed_Resolutions_051012.doc"
> >
> >Attachment converted: Little
> >Al:802.0-WG_LMSC_Organiz#A70D0.doc (WDBN/<IC>)
> >(000A70D0)
>
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Regards,
Tony
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