Re: [802SEC] Fwd: IEEE-SA News Update for September 20, 2007
Steve-
Just thought it would be a good idea and (at a minimum) appropriate
courtesy to notify the EC in advance if the chair and a significant chunk
of the EC is going to appear together at an outside event
Geoff
At 10:36 AM 9/24/2007 , Shellhammer, Steve wrote:
>Geoff,
>
> Since I was one (possible the only) person who sent an email
> regarding the rules I would like to clarify. In no way do I want to
> imply that we should only follow the rules. My point is that if the EC
> has some expectation on members of 802 then the EC should make those
> expectations know. You were expressing your concern that some members of
> 802 were acting in a questionable way. To me if there is some behavior
> that is expected then my point is just that everyone knows what that
> behavior is. I think Bob's email makes sense and sets an expectation
> that anyone making a presentation on an 802 standard should make it cleat
> in their presentation that all the opinions are his/hers unless the
> presentation has been approved by the EC. We might want to even
> communicate this expectation to the 802 membership so they know what is
> expected of them.
>
>Regards,
>Steve
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
>[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Geoff Thompson
>Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 6:32 AM
>To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>Subject: Re: [802SEC] Fwd: IEEE-SA News Update for September 20, 2007
>
>Bob-
>
>Thanks for your input. I confess that I am a little put off by "the no
>rules are being broken" responses. As the high level management
>committee,
>we are supposed to do a lot more than "just follow the rules". We are
>supposed to have the judgement and discretion and do the right thing in
>area not adequately covered by the rules.
>
>I admit and realize that I was leaning a bit heavily on the "too
>concerned"
>side. Having said that, it is clear to me that in the spectrum that runs
>
>from an ex-member of the EC all the way to the entire EC giving a panel
>at
>a 3rd party for-profit conference there is a point beyond which our
>participation is a legitimate issue of business of the 802 EC. The
>appearance of something being an EC or quasi-EC function is no different
>
>from the audience side than a sanctioned one.
>
>I continue to be concerned that this event was not even announced, much
>less discussed on the EC reflector at all by the involved parties. I
>really
>hate learning about this stuff via a 3rd party.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Geoff
>
>
>At 01:44 PM 9/21/2007 , Shellhammer, Steve wrote:
> >Bob,
> >
> > I think that makes sense and is very helpful. I agree that
> >having such a disclaimer in a presentation is a good idea.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Steve
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Grow, Bob [mailto:bob.grow@intel.com]
> >Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 12:43 PM
> >To: Shellhammer, Steve; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> >Subject: RE: [802SEC] Fwd: IEEE-SA News Update for September 20, 2007
> >
> >All:
> >
> >I'll come down somewhere in the middle. I think Geoff is being a bit
> >too concerned at this point, but I also think some have expressed
> >opinions that are too loose on making things very clear what the status
> >of the material presented is. If you read the boilerplate in the front
> >of our standards, it contains the following:
> >
> >"At lectures, symposia, seminars, or educational courses, an individual
> >presenting information on
> >IEEE standards shall make it clear that his or her views should be
> >considered the personal views of that individual
> >rather than the formal position, explanation, or interpretation of the
> >IEEE."
> >
> >So, especially being an 802 officer, have made it a practice to include
> >a disclaimer in my presentation (including the above). I don't think
>it
> >is enough to simply ignore that many will think someone holding an
> >impressive title may be delivering an official position. It is much
> >cleaner to make it very explicit that one is speaking personally.
> >
> >I expect that the seminar participants could and should clearly
>indicate
> >that they are providing personal opinions; and if they do that, it
> >satisfies all my concerns.
> >
> >--Bob
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
> >[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Shellhammer, Steve
> >Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 12:14 PM
> >To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> >Subject: Re: [802SEC] Fwd: IEEE-SA News Update for September 20, 2007
> >
> >Geoff,
> >
> > What is the rule on this? Is there a rule? I know we have
>some
> >rules regarding 802.18 representing 802 to regulatory organizations.
> >Are there other rules regarding giving presentations at workshops or
> >other presentations? I know Roger was recently giving a presentation
>on
> >802.16 in San Diego (where I live) at a local IEEE meeting. Was he
> >supposed to clear such a presentation with the EC?
> >
> > I think if the EC has some expectations on such presentations
>it
> >is obligated to document those expectations, otherwise 802 members will
> >not know what those expectations are, and would be left guessing.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Steve
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
> >[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Geoff Thompson
> >Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:01 AM
> >To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> >Subject: [802SEC] Fwd: IEEE-SA News Update for September 20, 2007
> >
> >Colleagues-
> >
> >This announcement troubles me. Although it does not say that it is
>being
> >
> >presented "in cooperation with IEEE 802" there is certainly a strong
> >impression given (especially since it is being moderated by our chair)
> >that
> >this event is sanctioned by 802. I don't recall ever having discussed
> >this
> >one way or the other in the EC. Even without any prejudice about how a
> >discussion in the EC might turn out, I am uneasy about this. I would be
> >interested in your thoughts.
> >
> >Geoff
> >
> > >To: <thompson@ieee.org>
> > >Subject: IEEE-SA News Update for September 20, 2007
> > >Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 07:04:48 -0700
> > >X-Delivery: Level 3
> > >Reply-To: ieee-sa-exec@ieeestandards.org
> > >X-Complaints-To: abuse@uptilt.com
> > >From: "IEEE Standards Association" <ieee-sa-exec@ieeestandards.org>
> > >
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