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Re: [802SEC] purchasing IEEE 802 standards



Roger-

Right in line with the flavor of my experiences.
See further comments in my reply to Pat.

Geoff


At 04:37 PM 9/26/2007 , Roger B. Marks wrote:
>John,
>
>Since your are our chief contact regarding the Get IEEE 802 program,
>I'd like to bring to your attention the current status regarding
>sales of individual IEEE 802 standards. As I recall, the decline in
>sales of standards is usually cited as a key problem in the Get IEEE
>802 budget. I have many times raised concerns that IEEE-SA is not
>effectively marketing or selling its standards or drafts. To look
>into this issue from a consumer perspective, I've today undertaken to
>answer the following question:
>
>Q: Is it possible to purchase an individual standard or draft from IEEE?
>
>I decided to buy 802.11-2007, as, I expect, a lot of people wiould
>want to do. Here is a report from the field.
>
>(1) As I think we have discussed many times, the Get IEEE 802 web
>site would be a good place to promote the sales of products - new
>standards or drafts - that are not in the program. So I started there:
>   http://standards.ieee.org/getieee802
>
>Drafts, which at one time were advertised on the site, are given a
>brief mention: the site says "they can be purchased at ShopIEE".
>There is no link on ShopIEE or explanation as to why the IEE would be
>selling IEEE drafts.
>
>The site says that "New, Superseded, and Withdrawn documents can be
>purchased by visiting the Shop IEEE . or ..." "Shop IEEE" links to a
>page that says "Shop IEEE Has Moved":
>   http://www.ieee.org/web/aboutus/help/shop_moved.html
>More on that in Step (2).
>
>Regarding new standards, the site says: "Effective 1 January 2007 new
>IEEE 802 standards will be included in the program after they have
>been published in PDF for twelve months. IEEE 802 standards
>currently subject to the six month waiting period are listed
>here." [I took note of the discrepancy between "twelve months" and
>"six months", an issue that I pointed out to IEEE in June and at the
>July Plenary.] The word "here" has a link to a page listing two
>items. Of the two, one is listed as a draft but was in fact approved
>over a year ago. Other standards that might go in here are missing. I
>haven't checked to see what belongs there, but I can think of one -
>802.11-2007 - because it's the one I want. In any case, both of the
>list documents have links that lead to the "Shop IEEE Has Moved" page.
>
>To summarize Step (1), the Get IEEE 802 site provides no list of
>drafts and offers incorrect instructions to get them. It provides an
>incomplete and obsolete list of new standards, and the only links to
>the sale of standards lead to the "Shop IEEE Has Moved" page. So,
>let's go shopping...
>
>(2) I'm at the "Shop IEEE Has Moved" page. Strange name for the
>shopping page, but what's in a name?
>Shop IEEE recommends that I download Internet Explorer 6.0 for
>Windows. I ignore the recommendation.
>
>Shop IEEE notifies me that "To make a purchase, you will need to
>login with an IEEE Web Account." I proceed anyway.
>
>Shop IEEE gives me two options "to find products in the new IEEE
>shopping area":
>
>(a) "Browse by Product Type". OK, I click browse and go to "The
>Definitive Source for IEEE Products & Services." Following the
>directions, I click the word "Standards". Now I get some more
>choices, including "Individual Standards" and the subsets "Approved
>Standards" and "Draft Standards". I click on "Approved Standards" and
>see the first ten IEEE standards, in a kind of alphabetical sort.
>8802:12 is right near the top, but I don't see 802.11. I keep
>clicking through the slow-loading pages, ten standards at a time.
>When I get to the 100th standard and see that it is 1073.4.1-1994, I
>give up and decide that this is not going to work for me.
>
>Before moving on, I wonder if perhaps the "Draft Standards" link
>would be helpful. Bingo! There are only 11 drafts in the catalog, so
>this is an easy list. I looked at the details. I found a 802.16 draft
>from 2005 that was published in 2006; I clicked the link and got an
>error message. I found a link to 802.16k/D3, which dates to October
>2006 and has been obsoleted by an approved standard; this one
>actually seemed to be for sale to the unsuspecting customer. I found
>two links to drafts of active 802.16 projects; these seemed to be for
>sale also. The drafts were obsolete; for example, P802.16/D5 instead
>of the P802.16g/D9 approved by RevCom today. Still, this was some
>kind of progress. But back to my goal: seeking 802.11-2007. Since
>"Browse by Product Type" was not the answer, I went back to the Shop
>IEEE page and clicked on:
>
>(b) "Search Shopping Area"
>This takes me to a page that says "Catalog Search - Search one or
>more criteria". It seems like an important page, so I'd like to give
>you the URL to get there. It's not clear how to find that URL, but
>I've done some research on the IEEE site and I think I have one that
>works:
>  http://www.ieee.org/go/shop_search
>
>OK, now I have a search page, but I can't enter anything into the
>search fields. After poking around, I see that I need to click "New
>Search" first (even though I thought this _was_ a new search). OK,
>now I enter "802.11" in the "Standard Number:" field and hit return.
>When that doesn't work, I click "Run Search". Bingo! 802.11-2007!
>[Along with some obsolete amendments, and the withdrawn 802.11F. But
>I noticed that the 802.11n draft, which I saw when browsing for
>drafts, is curiously missing. I tried searching for "802.11n".
>Nothing. I tried searching for "P802.11" and "P802.11n". Nothing.
> From the search perspective, it seems that P802.11n is not for sale.
>For kicks, I searched for "802.11b". No hits, even though it turned
>up when I searched for "802.11". Mysterious.]
>
>Anyway, I see 802.11-2007, so I click "Add to Cart". I ending up
>dropping both a CD and a PDF into my cart, with the following prices:
>  CD:  Member: $295, Non-Member $370
>  PDF: Member: $235, Non-Member $295
>
>(3) Purchase
>
>Now I'm ready to buy. I found the "My Cart" button at the top of the
>screen. Next, though, I need to "Create an IEEE Web Account or
>Login". Fortunately, I had an IEEE Web Account. What if I didn't? I
>didn't go there.
>
>Up pops "Calculate Shipping Charges". It's a little confusing. There
>is a Status field in the table. The CD status is "Unavailable". The
>PDF status is "shipped". I don't understand either of these, but I
>get the idea that the CD is out of stock. The two items are not
>priced, but there is a total price: $665. But that means I am being
>charged the nonmember price ($370 + $295), even though I am logged
>into my IEEE Web Account and my personal information is displayed on
>the screen. Not good. I deleted the CD and the price dropped to $295
>(the nonmember PDF price).
>
>Now I can Proceed to Checkout. I'm asked for my credit card info.
>However, this is where I stop. Why? Because I have not been given any
>information on the PDF. How will be it provided? When? Will I able to
>read it, or will copy-protection make it unusable on my system? [as
>could happen with IEEE drafts under the old system]. I'm not
>comfortable plunking down my credit card number with these unknowns
>and with a bill of $295 to commit to. Besides which, I am an IEEE
>member, so why does it say $295 instead of the member price of $235?
>
>So, I walk away. I just don't like the risk. Besides, I understand
>that I'll get the document for free if I wait just six months. [Or
>was it twelve months? I can't recall.]
>
>
>So, is it possible to purchase an individual standard or draft from
>IEEE? My research was inconclusive. But I get the strong feeling that
>sales of individual standards are not going to be looking good.
>
>Roger
>
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