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[802SEC] Informal Minutes from LMSC P&P Review Meeting



As announced, an LMSC P&P Review meeting was held at 6 PM on 11/11/07.
Informal Minutes are provided below.   Comments are welcome.


Best Regards,








Informal Minutes from 11/11/07 P&P Review Meeting:



John Hawkins

John Lemon

Glen Parsons

Bob Grow

Tony Jeffree

Pat Thaler

Steve Shellhammer

Roger Marks

Arnie Greenspan

Phillip Barber

Paul Nikolich

Geoff Thompson

Mat Sherman



Agenda for P&P Review - Sunday 11/11/07 6-10 PM in EC Suite 226


Call to order                      M. Sherman 

Approval of Agenda                 M. Sherman

Current Interpretations            S. Shellhammer

Current Actions on Re-elections    T. Jeffree

Chair Re-elections in revised P&P  T. Jeffree

Press Releases in revised P&P      S. Shellhammer

Interpretations in revised P&P     S. Shellhammer

Creation of Ops Manual             M. Sherman

Feedback for Audcom                M. Sherman

Open floor                         All






Call to order around 6:10 PM



Approved Agenda as modified above



Current Interpretations:


Bob O'hara claimed on reflector that Robert's Rules is called out at
higher governance

            Would dictate how we deal with interpretation


Are we covered by this?  What subgroup are we in relative to governance

            SASB Debated on IEEE bylaws 300 I(4)4 by SASB

                        Would have required approval by 50% of members

            IEEE agreed to change Bylaw which give IEEE SA exemptions

            A sponsor is a subgroup of the SA

            LMSC EC is a sponsor


But our P&P makes Robert's rules a guide.  Does this over rule 300


After some debate reached general consensus that Paul should follow
Robert's Rules to interpret the P&P.  

Any member may Appeal the Chair.



Current re-election issue:


Intended to be a 10 year limit, not 8.


Precedent exists for 5 terms, but rules have changed since then


Recommend Paul take position that is appeal proof


Be caution in interpreting rule

            Take literal ruling of 8 years and a day


Tony should request the WG vote on it.


What's the question they should vote on:


            Can Tony Jeffree stand for election in March 2008 as he will
have 8 years in office


Stuart is also in Tony's situation


David Law may be as well



Interpretation of P&P:


Decided we want to try and funnel in all desired changes to new P&P


Debated for a while


Took straw poll of EC voting members to see where support was (among
members present)

Let EC interpret by majority rule 2

Let chair interpret 8

            Need to add ability to over rule


Take straw poll tomorrow in EC meeting


How are interpretations captured once made?



Press Releases in revised P&P


Much discussions on press release


Reviewed Steves Text

Reviewed Baseline P&P text


Discussed what is a sponsor...


            5.2.2d of SASB Bylaws defines sponsor


            We should state this in the P&P


Mat's summary

            Steve's change already in Baseline

            Does not address issue of chair going direct to SA

            Mat encorages someon to raise this on the floor

                        Encorage pre-writing / approval of press

                        Encourage chairs to discourage SA releases
without approav





Chair Re-elections in revised P&P:


Issue of appointment in between terms

            Particularly of Chairs


Reviewed Tony's text


Tony created updated text and had general consensus



Creation of Ops Manual


EC is 'LMSC Sponsor' not LMSC


Just describe LMSC sponsor not LMSC


Push LMSC description in Ops Man


Use different colors for stuff that goes beyond baseline so they are
clearly marked



Use citation of Robert's Rules from Robert's Rules



Mat's current citation of Robert's is different from current baseline.
Need to update.



Define 'Sponsor' somewhere early in document as EC.


            Need to figure out where in baseline to add the 'name of
sponsor' = 'sponsor'



Use hidden text for baseline instructions

            Can be turned on and off

            so that we know what we are measured against.

            Turn off hidden text and print clean copy



Mark changes in P&P so that reader can identify:

            Stuff moved in from baseline

            Stuff moved from elsewhere in P&P (with pointer)

            Stuff that isn't in either...



Announce at EC - A small drafting committee working on splitting
documents and creating a 

baseline P&P complaint P&P and material for OM....


End Notes...


Matthew Sherman, Ph.D. 
Engineering Fellow 
BAE Systems -  Network Systems (NS) 
Office: +1 973.633.6344 
Cell: +1 973.229.9520 



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