Thread Links Date Links
Thread Prev Thread Next Thread Index Date Prev Date Next Date Index

[802SEC] FW: [802-18] FW: [802SEC] 802.18 Conference Call - 26 August - 2:00 p.m. CDT - FCC Request for Help to Define "Broadband"



Dear EC,

The draft filing that we will be working from today is now on 802.18's
Mentor web site as 09-0100/r0. 

Please note that John has already apologized for any ox gorings.....

Regards,

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: John Notor [mailto:jnotor@CADENCE.COM] 
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 13:02
To: STDS-802-18@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802-18] FW: [802SEC] 802.18 Conference Call - 26 August - 2:00
p.m. CDT - FCC Request for Help to Define "Broadband"

 
I have synthesized and uploaded the document
Comments-FCC-Defining-Broadband, 18-09-0100/r0, to the IEEE 802.18 section
of IEEE Mentor.

I took considerable editorial license in boiling down the inputs and
conversations in yesterday's telecon to create this document. If your ox was
gored, my appologies in advance.

John

John Notor 
System Architect
Engineering Services
Cadence Design Systems, Inc. 
Work: 408.473.8373 
Mobile: 408.799.2738 


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Lynch [mailto:freqmgr@SBCGLOBAL.NET] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:29 AM
To: STDS-802-18@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [802-18] FW: [802SEC] 802.18 Conference Call - 26 August - 2:00
p.m. CDT - FCC Request for Help to Define "Broadband"

RR-TAG,

Comments from Bob Grow. Other than that I am often up at 3:00 a.m. I
certainly would not want to have to plan my internet work on the bandwidth
only being available at that time!

Regards,

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grow, Bob
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 13:25
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] 802.18 Conference Call - 26 August - 2:00 p.m. CDT -
FCC Request for Help to Define "Broadband"

EC and RR-TAG:

I have a conflicting BOG call at the time so probably won't be able to
participate.  I do not believe a single definition will work.  Similarly, it
can't be defined in terms of link speed, as the advertised link speed is not
usable bandwidth, bandwidth can be throttled at aggregation points, etc.  

When talking about speeds for residential broadband access, the link speed
is only one of the criteria and typically not the most restrictive,
including the link rate of my "broadband" modem.  It is not uncommon for an
ISP to put explicit rate limiters on my data that may be less than the
effective link rate of the slowest link in my path.  Independent of
technology, because of aggregation, any definition has to incorporate
probability as has been the case for POTS service for throughout my
lifetime.

If I can only get the bandwidth my application requires at 3:00 in the
morning, I wouldn't consider the service broadband no matter how big the
bandwidth measurement at the limited time.

FYI, Scott Bradner wrote some rather negative things about the FCC's history
on this topic in a recent Network World
(http://www.networkworld.com/columnists/2009/081709-bradner.html).

--Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Paul Nikolich
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:07 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [802SEC] 802.18 Conference Call - 26 August - 2:00 p.m. CDT - FCC
Request for Help to Define "Broadband"

Mike,

May I suggest the agenda item (3) be focussed on answering the specific FCC
questions in the Public Notice--which I've cut-and-paste below.

Regards,

--Paul

We now seek more targeted comment on three aspects of this issue: (1) the
general form, characteristics, and performance indicators that should be
included in a definition of broadband; (2) the thresholds that should be
assigned to these performance indicators today; and (3) how the definition
should be reevaluated over time.

1. Form, Characteristics, and Performance Indicators. Much of the discussion

of any proposal to define "broadband" tends to center on download and upload

throughput.9 Download and upload throughput are important, but neither is
precise or diverse enough to describe broadband satisfactorily.10 For
example, advertised throughput rates generally differ from actual rates, are

not uniformly measured, and have different constraints over different
technologies.11 In addition, it is unclear what the end points of the
connection are over which throughput is measured or whether the performance
of the end points is reflected in the stated throughput. Moreover, there are

network characteristics - such as latency, reliability, and mobility - that
are relevant for certain applications but not others. Accordingly, we seek
comment on:

a. the form that a definition of broadband should take; b. whether to
develop a single definition, or multiple definitions; c. whether an
application-based approach to defining broadband would work, and how such an
approach could be expressed in terms of performance indicators; d. the key
characteristics and specific performance indicators that should be used to
define broadband; e. what segment(s) of the network each performance
indicator should measure,

such as the local access link to the end user, or an end-to-end path; f. how
factors such as latency, jitter, traffic loading, diurnal patterns,
reliability, and mobility should specifically be taken into account; g.
whether different performance indicators or definitions should be developed
based on technological or other distinctions, such as mobility or the
provision of the service over a wired or wireless network; h. the
feasibility and verifiability of measuring different performance indicators.


2. Thresholds. After identifying key characteristics and performance
indicators, a definition of broadband must identify acceptable thresholds -
typically minimums. Accordingly, we seek comment on:
a. what minimum thresholds should be assigned to the performance indicators;
b. the minimum thresholds necessary for broad classes of applications to
function properly; c. whether we should adopt multiple, escalating tiers of
minimum thresholds.


3. Updates. The Internet and broadband networks have been characterized by
rapid evolution and change. While a static set of objectively measured
thresholds may be useful to compare networks at a given time, or over time,
a static definition will fail to address changing needs and habits. 
Accordingly, we seek comment on:
a. what ongoing process should be put in place to update the definition,
particularly the threshold levels; b. how often should such updates should
occur; c. what criteria should be used to adjust thresholds over time; d.
how modifications over time to the definition will affect the Commission's
ability to collect and publish meaningful data on broadband deployment and
adoption.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Lynch" <freqmgr@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
To: <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [802SEC] [802-18] [802SEC] 802.18 Conference Call - 26 August -

2:00 p.m. CDT - FCC Request for Help to Define "Broadband"


> Dear EC and RR-TAG,
>
> A friendly reminder of today's call - as if you haven't been loaded up 
> with other emails on this topic!
>
> At the beginning of the call please email myself and Peter Murray 
> stating your presence on the call and your affiliation. This will 
> augment but not replace the normal roll call.
>
> Our agenda is:
>
> 1) Roll call
>
> 2) Patent policy: http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.pdf
>
> 3) Review of inputs and general discussion. Please note that I will 
> keep sending inputs/comments to both reflectors right up to the start 
> of the meeting.
>
> 4) Any other business.
>
> The is to develop an acceptable definition of "broadband" that can be 
> submitted to the FCC by next Monday's deadline. I propose that we 
> focus on the definition and that I will provide the boilerplate to 
> introduce the document. The full document will be submitted for an EC 
> review prior to filing with the FCC by CoB Monday. Presuming we only 
> have a 5 day EC review this filing will be from 802.18. I am not 
> certain that there is time to have an EC ballot so that it can be from 
> 802.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike
> +1.972.814.4901

----------
This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector.  This
list is maintained by Listserv.

----------
This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector.  This
list is maintained by Listserv.

----------
This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email reflector.  This list is maintained by Listserv.