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Re: [802SEC] Sponsor Ballot Recirculation Minimum TIme?

To the best of my recollection, there was a time (before electronic balloting) when Sponsor ballot recirculation minimum time was 15 days and we aligned WG ballot with it. After electronic balloting came into use, the minimum Sponsor ballot recirculation time was reduced to 10 days - reflecting taking out the nominal mailing time for ballot and response. As Roger says, there was some discussion of whether to reduce the WG recirculation minimum to match and decided to stay with 15 days. BTW, initial Sponsor ballot minimum was 35 days back when they were mailed reduced to 30 days with electronic ballot and IEEE 802 did follow that transition for WG ballots.

I think that maintaining the difference is reasonable. The recirculations of WG ballots often have quite substantive changes. There are weekends and holidays. One might want to consult with colleagues to check on the effect of a spec change on implementability. A 10 day recirculation could start on a Friday and end on a Sunday leaving only 5 days (or less when a holiday is spanned) for that. 

As we get to the end of WG balloting and transitioning to Sponsor ballot, there is time in the two month cycle that Adrian mentions to conduct a final 15-day WG recirculation and complete an initial Sponsor ballot so there isn't much pain in maintaining the 15-day minimum. I guess occasionally there might be cases where 10 days would allow for two recirculations plus a sponsor ballot but I think that is rare that we would use that. 

Because the minimum tends to get used as the default length, I'd be against reducing the 15-day min for WG ballots.

I'm comfortable 10-day minimum for Sponsor ballot because we are usually making pretty few and minor changes at that point. Even in the less common cases when a technical issue has surfaced that we are tweaking a technical spec for it during Sponsor ballot, there is a focus on the change - it is isolated and one is aware of it before hand so 10 days suffices. We are trying to make RevCom dates where 10-days vs 15-days for recirculation can make a difference in meeting the deadline.

On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Roger Marks <> wrote:

It's my understanding that Clause 11 is limited to WG ballots and that, per the LMSC rules, 10 days is OK for Sponsor Ballot recirculation.

I recall that, when the 15-day recirc was instituted about 15 years ago, there was discussion on this topic and we decided to not change the minimum in the Sponsor Ballot case.


On August 30, 2017 at 10:12:22 AM, John D'Ambrosia ( wrote:


In reviewing the rules regarding recirculation period for sponsor balloting, I have come some text that is unclear to me. 


The IEEE 802 WG P&P States –

11.0 Actions requiring an electronic ballot require comments on changes required to modify the vote to Approve.  For a letter ballot on a draft standard to be valid a majority of all the voting members of the Working Group must have responded Approve, Do Not Approve, or Abstain. Comment resolution, recirculations, etc. should be consistent with Sponsor ballot rules and of the IEEE-SA Standards Board Operations Manual (SASB OM).


The response time for a Working Group letter ballot on a draft shall be at least thirty days. However, for recirculation ballots the response time shall be at least fifteen days.


Submission of a draft standard or a revised standard to the Sponsor shall be accompanied by any outstanding negative votes and a statement of why these unresolved negative votes could not be resolved.


Revised drafts approved in subsequent Working Group letter ballot for forwarding to the Sponsor Ballot Group do not require Sponsor approval for forwarding.


However, the IEEE-SA Std Board Manual states – Ballot term Each ballot in the standards balloting process shall close at 23:59 UTC-124 on the closing date specified on the ballot. The length of the ballot and associated recirculations is set by the Sponsor. The initial ballot term shall be at least 30 days in duration. The recirculation ballot term shall be at least 10 days in duration.


When I spoke with David, he believe we have used a minimum of 15 days for Sponsor Ballots, but in light of these rules it is unclear where IEEE 802 has a requirement for a minimum of days for a sponsor ballot recirculation.


Can anyone clarify another rule I may have missed?  And what are WG Chairs requiring for Sponsor Ballot Recirculations?  Your input would be greatly appreciated.




John D’Ambrosia

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