Re: [STDS-802-11-CAC] opening up permissions for former voters
--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Chairs' Advisory Committee Reflector ---
Hello Adrian and all
( cc Stuart )
having read your response, I am in support for "ISO's rules on openness and access" and making thinks as easy and clean as possible, i.e. I would support your suggestion
"The cleanest change is to define active participant to include former voters,"
Given your argument regarding ISO, this change is also supported by external reasons to implement it as you suggest.
Best,
Marc
On 11 Feb 2014, at 11:59, Stephens, Adrian P wrote:
> --- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Chairs' Advisory Committee Reflector ---
>
> Hello Marc,
>
> Thanks for your thoughts. Some of mine below...
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Adrian P STEPHENS
>
> Tel: +44 (1793) 404825 (office)
> Tel: +44 (7920) 084 900 (mobile, UK)
> Tel: +1 (408) 2397485 (mobile, USA)
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marc Emmelmann [mailto:marc.emmelmann@xxxxxx]
> Sent: 11 February 2014 10:51
> To: Stephens, Adrian P
> Cc: STDS-802-11-CAC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Stuart J. Kerry
> Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-CAC] opening up permissions for former voters
>
> Dear all:
>
> Let me throw in some thoughts:
>
> a) leave it as it is today:
>
> * I see a good reason for restricting the access to members who currently have voting member status. The main issue from my perspective is that we should avoid having people just to show up for the minimum time required to get voting status resulting in access to drafts but further on never participate again.
>
> Adrian: Agreed, but even that is a substantial investment.
>
>
> b) change the access to "member area" to include "former voting member"
>
> * Over the last one and a half years, I saw many people dropping out of dot11 due to their change in sponsorship. Those were valuable members that would have continued to contribute and give valuable feedback on drafts even if they lost their voting status due to "lack of attendance". Having them to access the members area and provide feedback -- even if not associated with a formal vote -- would be of great benefit to the group.
>
> Question here: is having had voting membership sufficient (= having attended three meetings)? If you were "active" in a any of our projects, you would have beed voting member for at least 12 consecutive months, right?
>
> Adrian: Not necessarily. You can be active (in your sense) but fail to record 75% attendance, and fail to be active in the formal 802.11 OM sense.
>
>
> c) an entirely new line of thought
>
> What if we made a "call for comments" mandatory for every draft before it goes to the first LB. If we did this, we could deem "non-voting members" to be active if they participated in the last 3 out of 5 CCs.
>
> Adrian: I think we have to be careful to open the door to participation without attending meetings. IMHO, F2F meetings are an essential element of participation because that's how you learn how the group really works.
>
>
> In summary, I am personally really in favor of allowing members that were active over a long time to continue having access to the members area. Though, we have sponsors and are paid to participate, we put a lot of our hearts in the dot11 baby and continuing providing guidance / feedback and seeing it foster would be great even if we are not supported to attend the meetings.
>
> Adrian: Another thought. ISO recognition of IEEE-SA as a standards organization is dependent on IEEE-SA meeting the ISO's rules on openness and access. IEEE-SA is also supporting the "OpenStand" initiative to again open up its processes. So rather than focus on the current member's loss of relative privilege compared to a former member, I would rather focus on the impact a standard has on the market. I think that opening up access can only improve the latter.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marc
>
> (also CC Stuart)
>
> On 11 Feb 2014, at 09:05, Stephens, Adrian P wrote:
>
>> --- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Chairs' Advisory Committee
>> Reflector --- Dear CAC,
>>
>> Can I have your comment and guidance on the prospective OM change.
>> We have discussed opening up email joining and mentor write access.
>> The question is: what about access to the private area?
>>
>> These three "rights" are coupled together in the OM by the use of "active participant".
>> The cleanest change is to define active participant to include former
>> voters, but this might not be what people want, because we have not discussed this point.
>> What is your opinion?
>>
>> (Copying Stuart, who expressed an opinion at the last meeting).
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Adrian P STEPHENS
>>
>> Tel: +44 (1793) 404825 (office)
>> Tel: +44 (7920) 084 900 (mobile, UK)
>> Tel: +1 (408) 2397485 (mobile, USA)
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------
>> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>> Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ VAT No: 860 2173 47
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> _________ IF YOU WISH to be Removed from this reflector, PLEASE DO NOT
>> send your request to this CLOSED reflector. We use this valuable tool to communicate on the issues at hand.
>>
>> SELF SERVICE OPTION: Point your Browser to - http://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=STDS-802-11-CAC and then amend your subscription on the form provided. If you require removal from the reflector press the LEAVE button.
>>
>> Further information can be found at:
>> http://www.ieee802.org/11/Email_Subscribe.html
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> _________
>>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Marc Emmelmann
> e-mail: emmelmann@xxxxxxxx web: http://www.emmelmann.org
>
> IEEE 802.11 TGai Vice-Chair
>
> Google Scholar: http://scholar.google.de/citations?user=_EfkmxcAAAAJ
>
> _______________________________________________________________________________
>
> IF YOU WISH to be Removed from this reflector, PLEASE DO NOT send your request to this
> CLOSED reflector. We use this valuable tool to communicate on the issues at hand.
>
> SELF SERVICE OPTION:
> Point your Browser to - http://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=STDS-802-11-CAC and
> then amend your subscription on the form provided. If you require removal from the reflector
> press the LEAVE button.
>
> Further information can be found at: http://www.ieee802.org/11/Email_Subscribe.html
> _______________________________________________________________________________
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Emmelmann
e-mail: emmelmann@xxxxxxxx web: http://www.emmelmann.org
IEEE 802.11 TGai Vice-Chair
Google Scholar: http://scholar.google.de/citations?user=_EfkmxcAAAAJ
_______________________________________________________________________________
IF YOU WISH to be Removed from this reflector, PLEASE DO NOT send your request to this
CLOSED reflector. We use this valuable tool to communicate on the issues at hand.
SELF SERVICE OPTION:
Point your Browser to - http://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=STDS-802-11-CAC and
then amend your subscription on the form provided. If you require removal from the reflector
press the LEAVE button.
Further information can be found at: http://www.ieee802.org/11/Email_Subscribe.html
_______________________________________________________________________________