Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 答���: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Feedback Requested for CRs related to MLD architecture - 11-21-0577
Hi Mark,
Perhaps another way to explain this is that when a BA agreement is
established, the MLD hands off a window (a range of sequence Ids
corresponding to MSDUs). The affiliated STA is responsible to manage the
delivery of those MSDUs. When completed, the affiliated STA hands back the
state of those sequence Ids back to the MLD (at least the way I think of it
conceptually).
Cheers,
Mike
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 10:21 AM Mark Hamilton <mark.hamilton2152@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> Ming,
>
>
>
> My disagreement (or at least clarification), is that, in my understanding:
>
> - The MLD layer (upper MAC sublayer) maintains the entire “master”
> block ack status, including the ack state for all the links. That is, when
> any frame is received and/or BA’d at an individual link, the MLD level
> block ack status must be updated to know this. (There might be some delay,
> etc., here, as the implementation may not need that information at the MLD
> level immediately – but in the standard we generally don’t get into such
> discussions.)
> - Each link can be implemented to either also have a copy of this
> completely/master state, or it could have only a subset of that state which
> includes at least all the frame received/ack’d over that link, and
> optionally some/all of the state from other links. The latter part is not
> important, generally. If the links only have a subset of the master state,
> and a frame is retried over a different link, the receiving links need to
> (quickly?) coordinate to make sure the BA state is consistent. I think in
> practice this ‘just works’, but I’d have to think about it.
>
>
>
> So, where I got hung up was that I read your email to imply that the MLD
> is _*only*_ handling the delivery of BA state between/among the links.
> But, I think it is important that the MLD also has the master BA state.
> That latter part seemed to be missing in your description.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> *From:* Ganming(Ming Gan) <ming.gan@xxxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 14, 2021 7:57 AM
> *To:* mark.hamilton2152@xxxxxxxxx; STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 答复:
> [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Feedback Requested for CRs related to MLD architecture -
> 11-21-0577
>
>
>
> Hello Mark
>
>
>
> I am not sure I get your point. Which part do you disagree?
>
>
>
> From this, it can be seen that the MLD Upper MAC sublayer manages the
> scoreboarding for all MPDUs in this BA session, on all the links. The
> scoreboarding in the MLD Lower MAC sublayer is only the scoreboard for
> MPDUs that happen to be received over that link
>
> [Ming] agree
>
>
>
> This is just a local link optimization. HT-immediate block ack can be
> implemented by responding based on the Lower MAC sublayer’s (partial)
> scoreboard, or optionally with additional information about other links if
> the implementation desires to do so.
>
> [Ming] I am not sure what do you mean by “This is just a local link
> optimization”. My question which scoreboard does an affiliated STA use
> when it responds with BA. I assume it is local scoreboard, is this correct?
> My follow up question is how does each affiliated STA maintain its own
> scoreboard by following HT-immediate block ack architecture.
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Ming Gan
>
>
>
> *发件人**:* Mark Hamilton [mailto:mark.hamilton2152@xxxxxxxxx
> <mark.hamilton2152@xxxxxxxxx>]
> *发送时间:* 2021年7月14日 20:57
> *收件人:* STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *主题:* Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 答复:
> [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Feedback Requested for CRs related to MLD architecture -
> 11-21-0577
>
>
>
> Ming,
>
>
>
> I disagree with how you describe scoreboarding based on 21/577r5. I
> reference this text:
>
> When MLO is being used, the “Block Ack Scoreboarding” block in the MLD
> Upper MAC sublayer manages the BA status of the MPDUs (of this BA session)
> that are received on any setup link. The “Block Ack Scoreboarding” block in
> the MLD Lower MAC sublayer manages the BA status of the MPDUs (of this BA
> session) that are received on this link. It may convey BA status of the
> MPDUs received on another link if it obtained such info from the other link
> via the MLD Upper MAC sublayer.
>
> From this, it can be seen that the MLD Upper MAC sublayer manages the
> scoreboarding for all MPDUs in this BA session, on all the links. The
> scoreboarding in the MLD Lower MAC sublayer is only the scoreboard for
> MPDUs that happen to be received over that link, and optionally for
> some/all other MPDUs on other links. This is just a local link
> optimization. HT-immediate block ack can be implemented by responding
> based on the Lower MAC sublayer’s (partial) scoreboard, or optionally with
> additional information about other links if the implementation desires to
> do so.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> *From:* Ganming(Ming Gan) <ming.gan@xxxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 14, 2021 2:21 AM
> *To:* STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 答复:
> [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Feedback Requested for CRs related to MLD architecture -
> 11-21-0577
>
>
>
> Hello Mark
>
>
>
> Sorry for missing your email. Based on 21/577r5, each link maintains its
> own scoreboard and the MLD Upper MAC sublayer optionally delivers the BA
> record on one link to the MLD Lower MAC sublayer of other links. Now it
> seems the size of the scoreboard of each link is quite important since each
> STA will use this to provide reception status. However, it is still
> confusing how to implement the HT-immediate block ack architecture,
> including WinSizeO, WinSizeR. What do you think about it?
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Ming Gan
>
>
>
> *发件人**:* Duncan Ho [mailto:dho@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <dho@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]
> *发送时间:* 2021年7月14日 6:54
> *收件人:* STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *主题:* Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Feedback Requested
> for CRs related to MLD architecture - 11-21-0577
>
>
>
> Hi Mark,
>
>
>
> Yes, adding it to your 21/1111 sounds good to me. I think that would be a
> good clarification.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Duncan
>
>
>
> *From:* mark.hamilton2152@xxxxxxxxx <mark.hamilton2152@xxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* Monday, July 12, 2021 4:57 PM
> *To:* Duncan Ho <dho@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* RE: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Feedback
> Requested for CRs related to MLD architecture - 11-21-0577
>
>
>
> *CAUTION*: This email originated from outside of the organization.
>
> By the way, we could add this to document 11-21/1111, if you are worried
> about touching 11-21/0577 since it has already passed straw poll.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> *From:* mark.hamilton2152@xxxxxxxxx <mark.hamilton2152@xxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* Monday, July 12, 2021 5:49 PM
> *To:* 'Duncan Ho' <dho@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
> STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* RE: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Feedback
> Requested for CRs related to MLD architecture - 11-21-0577
>
>
>
> Ming/Duncan,
>
>
>
> Should we add a statement that the Block Ack agreement is between the peer
> MLDs, the scoreboarding function that is in the Lower MAC sublayer is just
> a “link local” optimization that may provide partial information about
> block ack status? That is, it is not where the overall block ack agreement
> is negotiated or maintained.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> *From:* Duncan Ho <dho@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* Monday, June 28, 2021 12:07 PM
> *To:* STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Feedback
> Requested for CRs related to MLD architecture - 11-21-0577
>
>
>
> Hi Ming,
>
>
>
> The diagram and associated text made no such requirement/assumption since
> they are meant for describing the functions and not how the detailed
> parameters are set or negotiated, etc.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Duncan
>
>
>
> *From:* Ganming(Ming Gan) <ming.gan@xxxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* Monday, June 28, 2021 7:33 AM
> *To:* STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Feedback Requested
> for CRs related to MLD architecture - 11-21-0577
>
>
>
> *CAUTION*: This email originated from outside of the organization.
>
> Hello Duncan
>
>
>
> I have a general question about the figure. Does it imply the size of each
> scoreboard for each link needs negotiation during ADDBA request/response?
>
> Best wishes
>
> Ming Gan
>
> *发件人**:* 顾祥新 (Xiangxin Gu) [mailto:Xiangxin.Gu@xxxxxxxxxx
> <Xiangxin.Gu@xxxxxxxxxx>]
> *发送时间:* 2021年5月10日 17:04
> *收件人:* STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *主题:* Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Feedback Requested for CRs related to MLD
> architecture - 11-21-0577
>
>
>
> Hi Duncan,
>
>
>
> Thank you for the contribution!
>
> I think we can have a more general example in Figure 35-xxx – Example MLD
> and the affiliated STA communication system, such as 2 STAs in non-AP MLD
> setting up link1 and link3 with AP MLD which has 3 STAs.
>
>
>
>
>
> BR,
>
>
>
> Xiangxin
>
> Unisoc Technologies Co., Ltd.
>
> +86 21 20360600 3324
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Arik Klein <arik.klein@xxxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 6, 2021 5:15 PM
> *To:* STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Feedback Requested for CRs related to
> MLD architecture - 11-21-0577
>
>
>
> Now with the doc…
>
>
>
> Sorry.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Arik
>
>
>
> *From:* Arik Klein
> *Sent:* יום ה 06 מאי 2021 12:12
> *To:* 'Duncan Ho' <dho@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
> STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* RE: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Feedback Requested for CRs related to
> MLD architecture - 11-21-0577
>
>
>
> Hi Duncan,
>
>
>
> Thanks for sharing this document.
>
> I’ve attach my comments with my colleague (Stephen McCann) comments.
>
>
>
> I’ll appreciate your review for these comments.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Arik
>
>
>
> *From:* Duncan Ho <dho@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* יום ד 28 אפריל 2021 21:00
> *To:* STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Feedback Requested for CRs related to MLD
> architecture - 11-21-0577
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Please see
> https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/21/11-21-0577-00-00be-cr-mld-architecture.docx
> and let me know if you have any comments or questions.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Duncan
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