Hi Matt, Li, and all,
Thanks Matt for the efforts and thanks Li for the comments.
I echo on the first comment from Li. There is a conflict in the second and third paragraphs from the screenshot. The first sentence of Paragraph 2 implies that 80 MHz BSS could
enable NPCA, while the following sentence says that 80 MHz BSS shall disable NPCA. The highlighted line in Paragraph 3 also implies 80 MHz BSS could enable NPCA. I agree with Li that we should keep it as “TBD (40 or 80) MHz”. Besides, we should delete what
Li highlighted in the third paragraph since it is TBD for 80 MHz BSS.
As for the second comment from Li, I think, generally, NPCA STA can be an AP or a non-AP. But based on the context, the NPCA STA in the last paragraph of the screenshot refers to
an non-AP STA. Li’s suggestion would help to clarify, but I am OK either way.
Best regards!
Yue Zhao
发件人: Li Yan <li.yan16@xxxxxxxxxx>
发送时间: 2024年12月5日
17:43
收件人: STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] [EXTERNAL] [STDS-802-11-TGBN] PDT-MAC-NPCA
Hi Matt,
Thanks for preparing the NPCA PDT. I have some minor comments as follows:
1. Basically i think TBD of 40 or 80 MHz in motion 134 means the limitation should be one of 40 or 80MHz, but now it has not been determined. Therefore, my suggestion is to keep
it as TBD MHz（i.e.,
greater than TBD MHz instead of 'greater than 40 or 80MHz'）
2. An NPCA STA shall not switch to the NPCA primary channel for NPCA operation if the value of the most recently received
NPCA Operation Information Present field from its associated AP is equal to 0.
According the context, 'an NPCA STA' is non-AP STA. However i'm not sure ' STA' is equal to 'non-AP STA' in the baseline.
Best Regards！
Yan Li
Original
From: MatthewFischer <matthew.fischer@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2024年12月04日 03:26
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] [EXTERNAL] [STDS-802-11-TGBN] PDT-MAC-NPCA
1762r5 is now available.
This revision differs from r4 only in that editor's recommended edits have been made
1) all normative instances "subfield" are now changed to "field"
2) a few instances of "is set to " have been changed to "a value of ... indicates ..."
On Tue, Dec 3, 2024 at 10:54 AM Wullert, John R II (PERATON LABS) <jwullert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Matt,
My initial thought was “Alternate Primary Channel Access (APCA)” with the “Alternate Primary Channel. I am not at all wedded to that, and think several of your suggestions work as well or better. Your point about the ephemeral nature makes sense. I do think it is temporarily using an alternate channel, so “Temporary Alternate Primary Channel (TACA)” with the “Alternate Channel” with the “Alternate Primary Channel” seem like a clear and descriptive combination.
John
From: Matthew Fischer <matthew.fischer@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2024 1:20 PM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] [EXTERNAL] [STDS-802-11-TGBN] PDT-MAC-NPCA
John,
If you retain the term NPCA, and then use the term Alternate Primary Channel, then you lose a nominal coupling to the NPCA mechanism.
If we change the name of NPCA to TACA = Temporary Alternate Channel Access, and then call the new primary as the Alternate Primary Channel, then there is a nice nominal pairing between the name of the feature/mechanism/operational mode and one of the items that is a subject of that mode.
e.g. If we use TACA, then when a STA switches to TACA operation, the STA is performing Temporary Alternate Channel Access on an Alternate Channel where there is an Alternate Primary Channel.
You could even drop the T and just have ACA
Alternate Channel Access
Alternate Channel
Alternate Primary Channel
Some might argue for changing "Channel" to "Subchannel", as the Alternate Channel is supposed to be a portion (i.e. subchannel) of the normal BSS Operating Channel
Bur dropping Temporary loses the ephemeral nature of the channel, hence my inclusion of "temporary", so, I think it is better to drop the Alternate label, as Temporary sort of covers the alternate nature of it anyway:
Temporary Subchannel Access = TSA
Temporary Subchannel
Temporary Primary Channel
Or, you could use Interim:
Interim Subchannel Access
Interim Subchannel
Interim Primary Channel
more choices:
Transient
Ephemeral
Fugacious
Capricious
On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 10:11 AM Wullert, John R II (PERATON LABS) <jwullert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Matt,
One note – when I proposed the phrase “Alternate Primary Channel Access”, I was not proposing that we use “APCA primary channel”, but that we use “Alternate Primary Channel” to refer to the channel used for access control.
John
From: Matthew Fischer <matthew.fischer@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2024 3:13 PM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] [EXTERNAL] [STDS-802-11-TGBN] PDT-MAC-NPCA
After receiving some editorial comments regarding 1762r2, I have made many of the suggested editorial changes and then added some of my own.
The result is a new r3 version that is now available on the server:
On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 3:09 PM Matthew Fischer <00000959766b2ff5-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks to those who submitted comments on 1762r1.
Due to the large volume of motions that were passed regarding the NPCA feature, there is a new revision of 1762 that has been uploaded.
This revision is constructed from several comments/proposed text sections that I received from various TTT members and then consolidated into the r2 version of 1762.
The changes are vast.
This latest revision can be found on the server:
Note that because of the amount of changes made to the earlier revision of the document, those comments that were sent to this email thread were not directly addressed.
As to the comment from John Wullert regarding terminology, I agree that the term NPCA primary channel seems a bit clumsy upon expansion of the acronym.
John's suggestion is an interesting alternative, but I would not unilaterally adopt it without first soliciting additional opinion on the matter.
[of course, at this point, no one else has responded... so maybe there is no other opinion!]
[and I'll note that if you do not expand the acronym, the term isn't so clumsy]
[and I'll note that even with John's proposal, upon expansion, you still get a "double primary" problem - e.g. APCA Primary Channel = Alternate Primary Channel Access Primary Channel]
How about TACA - Temporary Alternate Channel Access
No change has yet been made to that term.
Matthew Fischer
Nice Guy
Broadcom Inc.
+1 408 543 3370 office
On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 8:45 AM Wullert, John R II (PERATON LABS) <jwullert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Matt,
Thanks for this. The one comment I have is related to terminology – It seems to me that “non-primary channel access primary channel”, the expansion of “NPCA primary channel”, has the potential to lead to confusion. It might be better to call this feature “Alternate Primary Channel Access”? In that case, what is currently labeled “NPCA primary channel” would become the “alternate primary channel”, which seems much more descriptive and clearer to me. (Given that the motions use NPCA, it may be that this is the wrong place to have the discussion…)
John
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