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Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] 11-25-936r4 PDT NPCA update -- was: Reminder: Technical Submissions Queues



Hi, Matthew,
Thanks for drafting the PDT.
Please find the following comment from my side:
1. I am wondering why the initial QSRC should be announced by the AP to make the STA to align the counter with the AP. There is no such behaviour in the EDCA so could you explain more?
2. When resuming the parameters of the EDCAF after STA switching back, the AC, whose PPDU has been transmitted with NPCA and the MUEDCA is triggered, should be excluded from the resuming to keep using the MUEDCA to maintain the faireness. This is missing in the current text.  


BRs,

Haorui Yang(Rae)

China Mobile
---- Replied Message ----
From Matthew Fischer<matthew.fischer@xxxxxxxxx>
Date 6/10/2025 08:16
To <STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] 11-25-936r4 PDT NPCA update -- was: Reminder: Technical Submissions Queues

936r4 is now on the server:

https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/25/11-25-0936-04-00bn-pdt-cr-mac-npca-cc50.docx


Chaoming,

Thanks for the review.
Here is a summary of responses to your comments, for details of changes, please see the newest revision of the document.

1. PPDU-based v TXOP-based condition naming

You correctly point out that some form of TXOP information is possibly being used to determine the NPCA duration in the PPDU-based condition.
Therefore, I have changed PPDU-based to PHY Header based and TXOP based to MAC Header based.

2. might vs may within condition 2

might is the correct term, so no change is needed here
may is the correct term only when an optional action is being described - might is the correct term when describing a possible event, which is the case here

3. request for modification of a long sentence describing the time window for receipt of the third PPDU

I have divided the sentence into a first part and two subbullets

4.  request to allow use of PHY header TXOP fields instead of (or in addition to?) MAC DUR field

This would be a significant change, and I am not certain if there is widespread support for it, so I would recommend a separate straw poll / document for this requested change

5. request to move the OBSS PPDU condition to earlier in the sequence

There is no need to move this requirement - the initial statement of condition 2 is that ALL of the following items must be true, so the order does not matter
However, it is noted that the condition says that at least one of the "received PPDUs", but it is not clear that if one receives only the PHY header of the third PPDU, is that a "received PPDU" so I have added the additional condition "or partially received PPDUs" to allow for identification of the OBSS nature of the TXOP through reception of the OBSS information in the PHY header of the third PPDU

6. use of triple negative

It looks like a double negative to me, as such, I do not think that the language is difficult to parse

And your proposed phrasing is inaccurate:

"its use of triggered UL transmission only is enabled"

There is no process that enables UL triggered UL transmission only.
There is only a process that enables or disables UL transmissions that are not triggered

So I have made no change to this text

7.  prohibiting UHR ELR PPDU transmission during NPCA

You propose removing this restriction

I'm a bit on the fence on this one - there was a significant amount of informal support for the restriction
I do not know how much opposition there is to including it
So I have made no change for now

8. prohibition of the use of DSO with NPCA

You propose removing this restriction

The arguments that I have heard against using DSO with NPCA are much louder and stronger than ELR
I am confident that there is not much support for removal of this restriction
So I have made no change for now

9. you propose allowing groupcast frame transmisions on the NPCA channel with a new condition:

if All the member STAs corresponding to the group addressed frames are operating on the NPCA primary channel

Your argument to support this change is based on the last part of the note of motion 366.
I think that we have different interpretations of that note.
Here is the last part that you are using to justify your proposed change:

the group addressed frame will be buffered and delivered immediately following the next DTIM Beacon, unless explicitly specified otherwise

I believe that the phrase "unless explicitly specified otherwise" is referring to the future time at which the frames will be delivered, and not to the text in the normative part of the motion text which says that the frames shall not be delivered during the NPCA window.

So no change at this time to the PDT for this comment.




On Sun, Jun 8, 2025 at 8:15 PM 罗朝明(Chaoming Luo) <luochaoming@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Matt,

 

A few comments on 25/936r3 as attached.

 

BR,

Chaoming

发件人: Matthew Fischer <matthew.fischer@xxxxxxxxx>
发送时间: 202568 9:04
收件人: STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] Reminder: Technical Submissions Queues

 

 

Alfred,

 

Please update the revision for 11-25-0936 to r3:

 

 

Thank you.

 

Matthew Fischer (Broadcom)

 

On Sat, Jun 7, 2025 at 5:18PM Matthew Fischer <matthew.fischer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

 

Alfred,

 

Please update the revision for 11-25-0936 to r2:

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

On Sat, Jun 7, 2025 at 9:33AM Kiseon Ryu <kiseon.ryu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Alfred,

 

Please keep the following contributions in the TGbn MAC queue and update the link to the documents.

 

2025

873

0

TGbn

P-EDCA Discussion

Kiseon Ryu (WILUS)

07-Jun-2025 

Download

2025

874

0

TGbn

UHR BSS Parameter Update

Kiseon Ryu (WILUS)

07-Jun-2025 

Download

 

Thanks,

Kiseon

 

 

 

From: Alfred Asterjadhi <asterjadhi@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2025 at 9:16 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] Reminder: Technical Submissions Queues

Hello all,

 

Please consider this as a gentle reminder regarding the announcement made during the Joint telco of last week:

 

·         Authors of technical submissions are invited to review the technical submissions queues and are requested to:

§  Send a request for removal of the submission from the queue, if the concepts in the submission are planned to (or are) being handled via a CR/PDT.

§  Upload the contribution and send an e-mail to the TGbn chair to update the link to the contribution by the end of this week (Sunday, June 7th, 2025). Submissions that have not been uploaded by then and have not been requested to update the link to the document, will be removed from the technical submission queue

 

Regards,


Alfred

--

Alfred Asterjadhi, PhD

IEEE802.11 TGbe/TGbn Chair,

Qualcomm Technologies Inc.

Cell #:    +1 858 263 9445

Office #: +1 858 658 5302


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Matthew Fischer


 

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Matthew Fischer


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