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Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] 11-25-936r4 PDT NPCA update -- was: Reminder: Technical Submissions Queues


Chaoming,

See some comments in line:

To save space, and reduce confusion, I've eliminated items where there is no new response from me:


On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 7:16 PM 罗朝明(Chaoming Luo) <luochaoming@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Matt,

 

Thanks for the reply and please see my follow-up inline.

 

BR,

Chaoming

发件人: Matthew Fischer <matthew.fischer@xxxxxxxxx>
发送时间: 2025年6月10日 8:16
收件人: STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] 11-25-936r4 PDT NPCA update -- was: Reminder: Technical Submissions Queues

 

 


  

4.  request to allow use of PHY header TXOP fields instead of (or in addition to?) MAC DUR field

 

This would be a significant change, and I am not certain if there is widespread support for it, so I would recommend a separate straw poll / document for this requested change

[cm] My point actually is what is the DUR field are you referring to in “the DUR field value obtained from the first PPDU if the first PPDU did not contain an (MU)RTS”. Is it the Duration/ID field in the MAC header? If so, then that means the STA has to at least receive and decode a few DATA symbols to get that field.

Correct - for condition 2) which is the 3 frame exchange case (now the MAC HEADER case) the NPCA STA will have to decode MAC information.
Note that for condition 2) (MAC HEADER), the first two frames are ICF and ICR which are expected to be sent at low MCS and therefore have a higher probability of being correctly decoded.
If a STA is unable to decode the MAC information, then it might be able to decode the PHY information in frame 3 and fall back to condition 1)

 


6. use of triple negative

 

It looks like a double negative to me, as such, I do not think that the language is difficult to parse

 

And your proposed phrasing is inaccurate:

 

"its use of triggered UL transmission only is enabled"

 

There is no process that enables UL triggered UL transmission only.

There is only a process that enables or disables UL transmissions that are not triggered

[cm] I do suggest change the name of the process from “UL transmissions that are not triggered” to “triggered UL transmission only”

So I have made no change to this text

The suggestion does not match the text from other sections.

 

 

7.  prohibiting UHR ELR PPDU transmission during NPCA

 

You propose removing this restriction

 

I'm a bit on the fence on this one - there was a significant amount of informal support for the restriction

I do not know how much opposition there is to including it

So I have made no change for now

[cm] I do have concern on this since there were no sufficient discussion on this during the past calls.

Let's bring it to the larger group.
 

 

8. prohibition of the use of DSO with NPCA

 

You propose removing this restriction

 

The arguments that I have heard against using DSO with NPCA are much louder and stronger than ELR

I am confident that there is not much support for removal of this restriction

So I have made no change for now

[cm] May you share the arguments to let more members to know the justification?

I support DSO in NPCA, so I am not in a position to provide the arguments for the prohibition.

 

 9. you propose allowing groupcast frame transmisions on the NPCA channel with a new condition:

 

if All the member STAs corresponding to the group addressed frames are operating on the NPCA primary channel

 

Your argument to support this change is based on the last part of the note of motion 366.

I think that we have different interpretations of that note.

Here is the last part that you are using to justify your proposed change:

 

the group addressed frame will be buffered and delivered immediately following the next DTIM Beacon, unless explicitly specified otherwise

 

I believe that the phrase "unless explicitly specified otherwise" is referring to the future time at which the frames will be delivered, and not to the text in the normative part of the motion text which says that the frames shall not be delivered during the NPCA window.

 

So no change at this time to the PDT for this comment.

[cm] Sounds like we do have different interpretations. To make progress, could you still keep “unless explicitly specified otherwise” in the draft, and we can clarify it in the next round?

As the text is in motion 366, I have added the text in question to the NOTE that exists in the relevant item in 936r5.
 

  

 

On Sun, Jun 8, 2025 at 8:15 PM 罗朝明(Chaoming Luo) <luochaoming@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Matt,

 

A few comments on 25/936r3 as attached.

 

BR,

Chaoming

发件人: Matthew Fischer <matthew.fischer@xxxxxxxxx>
发送时间: 2025年6月8日 9:04
收件人: STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] Reminder: Technical Submissions Queues

 

 

Alfred,

 

Please update the revision for 11-25-0936 to r3:

 

 

Thank you.

 

Matthew Fischer (Broadcom)

 

On Sat, Jun 7, 2025 at 5:18 PM Matthew Fischer <matthew.fischer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

 

Alfred,

 

Please update the revision for 11-25-0936 to r2:

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

On Sat, Jun 7, 2025 at 9:33 AM Kiseon Ryu <kiseon.ryu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Alfred,

 

Please keep the following contributions in the TGbn MAC queue and update the link to the documents.

 

2025

873

0

TGbn

P-EDCA Discussion

Kiseon Ryu (WILUS)

07-Jun-2025 

Download

2025

874

0

TGbn

UHR BSS Parameter Update

Kiseon Ryu (WILUS)

07-Jun-2025 

Download

 

Thanks,

Kiseon

 

 

 

From: Alfred Asterjadhi <asterjadhi@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2025 at 9:16 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] Reminder: Technical Submissions Queues

Hello all,

 

Please consider this as a gentle reminder regarding the announcement made during the Joint telco of last week:

 

·         Authors of technical submissions are invited to review the technical submissions queues and are requested to:

§  Send a request for removal of the submission from the queue, if the concepts in the submission are planned to (or are) being handled via a CR/PDT.

§  Upload the contribution and send an e-mail to the TGbn chair to update the link to the contribution by the end of this week (Sunday, June 7th, 2025). Submissions that have not been uploaded by then and have not been requested to update the link to the document, will be removed from the technical submission queue. 

 

Regards,


Alfred

--

Alfred Asterjadhi, PhD

IEEE802.11 TGbe/TGbn Chair,

Qualcomm Technologies Inc.

Cell #:    +1 858 263 9445

Office #: +1 858 658 5302

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Matthew Fischer


 

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