Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] PDT for UHR MU Operation

Thread Links	Date Links
Thread Prev	Thread Next	Thread Index	Date Prev	Date Next	Date Index

Hi Yongho,

Thank you for your comments

I understand that adding an exception in previous version is technically incomplete; that is a good point

Since we do not have a definition for remapping channelization for NPCA so far, I modified subclause 37.3.1.2, "RU allocation in a UHR MU PPDU," to address the issues you pointed out

Basically, the rules for RU or MRU allocation are followed by the rules for EHT, and the additional rules and exceptions for NPCA and DSO are included in the subclause in the attachment

To address the point regarding MU-RTS that you mentioned below, a restriction has been added in 37.3.2.2.3 (see attachment) to prevent indications on channels where a non-AP STA is not operating

This could cover the case where an NPCA AP transmits MU-RTS as an ICF on the NPCA primary channel

Please look at the changes and let me know if you have further opinions

I am not sure about the simple solution mentioned below. Do you have any suggestions?

To All,

Additionally, there are some changes related to the BSRP NTB Trigger frame from both a UHR AP and a non-AP UHR STA

This version is aligned with D0.3

Best Regards,

Hongwon

From: Yongho Seok <yongho.seok@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2025 7:27 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] PDT for UHR MU Operation

Hi Hongwon,

"A UHR AP shall not allocate an RU or MRU in the secondary 160 MHz channel of a 320 MHz UHR MU PPDU or UHR TB PPDU to a 160 MHz operating non-AP UHR STA, if the 160 MHz operating non-AP UHR STA is not operating in the NPCA or DSO mode."

When the NPCA primary channel is within the primary 160 MHz, no change is needed. The same rule applies.
That is:
A UHR AP that obtains a TXOP on the NPCA primary channel shall not allocate an RU or MRU in the secondary 160 MHz channel of a 320 MHz UHR MU PPDU or UHR TB PPDU to a 160 MHz-operating non-AP UHR STA.

When the NPCA primary channel is within the secondary 160 MHz, if I follow your logic, a new rule would need to be defined:
That is:
A UHR AP that obtains a TXOP on the NPCA primary channel shall not allocate an RU or MRU in the primary 160 MHz channel of a 320 MHz UHR MU PPDU or UHR TB PPDU to a 160 MHz-operating non-AP UHR STA.

Adding an exception is technically incomplete.

You should also consider the following case:

For example,
after the AP switches to the NPCA primary channel, when MU-RTS is transmitted as an ICF, the RU Allocation subfield in the MU-RTS defines the primary 80 MHz, secondary 80 MHz, secondary 160 MHz, and so on. In this case, I believe the secondary 80 MHz and secondary 160 MHz channels in the RU Allocation subfield should be remapped based on the NPCA primary channel.

Therefore, a simpler solution is to provide a general statement on how secondary channels are redefined after switching to the NPCA primary channel. With this approach, there is no need to add exceptions specifically for NPCA regarding MU RU allocation restrictions.

Thanks,

Yongho

2025년 6월 10일 (화) 오전 12:53, hongwon.lee <hongwon.lee@xxxxxxx>님이 작성:

Dear All,

Thank you for listening to my presentation and for your comments
The PDT doc presented today is available at the following link: https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/25/11-25-0839-09-00bn-pdt-uhr-mu-operation.docx

During the presentation, there were several comments
I would like to have an offline discussion about those comments

Alfred and Liwen,
Alfred mentioned that the BSRP NTB Trigger frame can be transmitted not only for DUO but also for other features such as DPS in the Mobile AP case. I made changes to incorporate the comment on Page 6. Liwen, could you check the changes below?
[Original Text]
A non-AP UHR STA shall not send a BSRP NTB Trigger frame unless the STA is operating in DUO mode and is the TXOP holder, and the BSRP NTB Trigger frame that the STA transmits carries unavailability information (see 37.12.2 Dynamic Unavailability Operation (DUO) mode)
[Modified Text]
A non-AP UHR STA shall not send a BSRP NTB Trigger frame unless the STA is operating in DPS mode (see 37.10.1 Dynamic power save (DPS) operation), NPCA mode (see 37.11 Non-primary channel access (NPCA)) or DUO mode (see 37.12.2 Dynamic Unavailability Operation (DUO) mode).

Liwen,
For UHR, new rules for IFCS and Padding are described in 37.15 Padding for an Initial Control frame
Regarding the “Padding for a Trigger frame” subclause in UL MU Operation, you mentioned that we should have some text in order to avoid confusing the reader, and there may be some restriction for an EHT PPDU and similar restriction should be described for a UHR PPDU, right? Could you provide your suggestion?

Yongho,
Could you please let me know what your concern is about NPCA on Page 5? You mentioned that the changes related to NPCA on Page 5 may affect other subclauses, such as the EDCA part, and consequently, this may complicate the draft work because of side effects on other subclauses. Should additional rules such as related to the mask PPDU be applied to the NPCA subclause? If you would like to have a separate discussion about this, please let me know. Or any suggestions are welcome.

Alfred,
I made a change to incorporate your comment by adding the condition that DUO mode is enabled. Could you please check it?
[Original Text]
A UHR AP may transmit a BSRP NTB Trigger frame subject to the rules defined in 37.10.1 Dynamic power save (DPS) operation, 37.11 Non-primary channel access (NPCA) and 37.12.2 (Dynamic Unavailability Operation (DUO) mode)
[Modified Text]
A UHR AP may transmit a BSRP NTB Trigger frame subject to the rules defined in 37.10.1 Dynamic power save (DPS) operation, 37.11 Non-primary channel access (NPCA) and 37.12.2 (Dynamic Unavailability Operation (DUO) mode) if a non-AP UHR STA addressed by the BSRP NTB Trigger frame is operating in DUO mode.
BTW, I expect each subclause would update the TX conditions of BSRP NTB Trigger frame

Best Regards,
Hongwon

From: hongwon.lee <hongwon.lee@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2025 10:20 AM
To: 'STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx' <STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] PDT for UHR MU Operation

Dear All,

I presented the PDT-MAC-UHR-MU-operation (25/839r6) at the TGbn MAC Ad Hoc CC today, although I couldn't finish it due to time constraints
The PDT is available at the following link: https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/25/11-25-0839-06-00bn-pdt-uhr-mu-operation.docx

Could you please review it offline and provide any feedback?
Comments from PHY experts would be especially helpful, as this PDT is relevant to both MAC and PHY aspects

Best Regards,
Hongwon
To unsubscribe from the STDS-802-11-TGBN list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=STDS-802-11-TGBN&A=1

To unsubscribe from the STDS-802-11-TGBN list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=STDS-802-11-TGBN&A=1