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Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBP] PDT Security General Update



Hi Guy and Hui,

In one paper earlier this year, I made some analysis on the length of nonce. The analysis showed 64 bits would be sufficient for AMP case:

In my opinion, 64 bits would be enough and if we are really concerned, 128 bits would be definitely sufficient.

P.S. The numerical analysis shown in 11-26/0604:

 
~50% collision 
Probability of one repeat after 1 million use
64-bit Nonce
after 2^32 (4.3 billion) uses
P≈2.71×10^(-8)
128-bit Nonce
after 2^64 uses
P≈1.47×10^(-27)


Thanks,
Sam



From: Guy-Armand Kamendje <guy-armand@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2026 6:57 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBP@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <STDS-802-11-TGBP@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBP] PDT Security General Update

I am afraid that Sam's analysis does not consider offline dictionary attacks.  I think 8 octets nonces might enable feasible offline dictionary attacks (more evidence is certainly needed to support this claim).
Sixteen or 32-octet nonces would put us on the safe side. My preference goes for 32 octets. Given that handshake is not expected to be a regular operation, the impact on the overal airtime might be limited. 
G

On Tue, Sep 1, 2026 at 3:22 AM Rojan Chitrakar <00002005fb56ded7-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Hui,

 

“I have not found meaningful quantitative analysis about nonce size vs security performance, but there is good reason to worry about real-time attacks if the nonce size is too small, given that currently one piece SHA256 HW accelerator such as Antminer S21 series can compute hash value 2x10^14 times per second.”

 

Sam had contributed on the topic in the past:

 

https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/26/11-26-0604-00-00bp-secure-amp-communication-with-reduced-length-anonce-and-snonce.pptx

 

Best Regards,

Rojan Chitrakar

 

From: Hui.Luo@xxxxxxxxxxxx <Hui.Luo@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2026 9:14 AM
To: Rojan Chitrakar <rojan.chitrakar@xxxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGBP@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [STDS-802-11-TGBP] PDT Security General Update

 

Hi Rojan,

 

Thanks for the comments. Please see my responses to most of your comments in the attached document.

 

Best regards,

 

Hui

 

From: Rojan Chitrakar <00002005fb56ded7-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2026 5:50 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBP@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBP] PDT Security General Update

 

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Hi Hui,

 

Thanks for the PDT. Added some comments on top of Amichai’s.

 

Best Regards,

Rojan Chitrakar

 

From: Amichai Sanderovich <00003126a116a6ee-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2026 5:13 PM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBP@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBP] PDT Security General Update

 

Thank you Hui,

 

Please see attached some comments

 

Best Regards

Amichai

 

From: Hui Luo <0000594db8d8d1cb-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Saturday, 15 August 2026 at 22:45
To: STDS-802-11-TGBP@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <STDS-802-11-TGBP@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGBP] PDT Security General Update

Hi All,

I have suggested some updates on PDT Security General in order to resolve TBDs in this subclause and better prepare the subsequent subclauses. Please review it at https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/26/11-26-1060-02-00bp-pdt-amp-security-general.docx.

Hi Bo,

Please queue it for PDT presentation.

Thanks,

Hui

 


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