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 Jinweon, Joseph and All, 
Few 
comments: 
1. 
 Typically there is no 1-1 correspondence between data units at different 
layers. 
For 
example, most MAC protocols do both fragmentation and aggregation of data 
 
units 
from upper layers. The following terminology is widely used: if we 
talk 
on 
certain layer (e.g. MAC), data units of above layer are called MAC 
SDUs 
(Service Data Units) while data units of this layer are called MAC 
PDUs 
(Protocol Data Units) 
2. 
So a reliability indicator for layer X, it should be provided in the terms 
 
of 
errors encountered at the level of SDUs (service data units of this layer). For 
example, 
Ethernet MAC layer transfers IP datagrams, then the indicator should 
be error ratio 
of IP 
datagrams [M/N where N - number of transferred datagrams, M - number of 
erroneous 
datagrams]. number . There is some problem as the error 
ratio depends on the datagram 
size, 
but we can normalize to per-1-bit value. 
3. It 
seems natural to measure reliability of future 802.20 PHY in the terms 
of 
error 
rate for MAC PDUs transported by the PHY. The above comment 
on normaliztion is applicable.  
Probably "frames" mentioned by Jinweon are MAC 
PDUs 
Such definition naturally addresses error ratio "before ARQ" 
[and other MAC operations, 
for 
example fragmentation/assembly], but "after FEC" (which is a part of 
PHY)   
4. I 
completely share Jinweon's statement on diversity of services that may 
result in 
diversity of MAC procedures [enabled/disabled ARQ, restricted delivery 
delay etc.]. 
Then 
above MAC [e.g. at TCP/IP level] we may have different error ratio with the 
same 
PHY reliability. 
5. 
Bottom line: reliability requirements should be first specified for PHY. 
Then - separately - 
requirements for MAC's error correction capabilities [for example, "MAC 
should be able to ensure  
MAC 
SDUs error ratio not more than X while having PHY SDUs error 
ratio = Y" Typicaly there  
is a 
tradeoff between MAC correction capabilities and system 
latency]. 
Vladimir 
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