RE: [10GBASE-T] September interim meeting
Nariman,
 
CX4 is useful 
especially when we have in rack connections to make or ones going to the next 
rack. However, the distance is too short for many other data center connects. 
Also, the cable for the long distance is relatively bulky which may be a problem 
for some uses. We will be glad to get it, but it only solves a corner of the 
problem space.
 
Something for the 
longer distances in data centers that is lower cost than fiber would be useful. 
For that environment, it doesn't necessarily have to rely on already installed 
wiring. Running on existing wiring is nice, but not 
essential.
 
My view of the 
important items for the data center environment:
 
It must perform 
solidly on the media we choose for it - data integrity factors such as BER must 
be met.
It must be able to 
live on "standard" server bus adapter formats with a TOE: e.g. PCI Express and 
Infiniband
    which means power is a concern
It must be 
transparent to existing MACs - that is, the MAC must see the same behavior it 
sees with 10 Gig fiber.
100 m would be desireable (partly to enable future horizontal 
usage) but the data center could live with shaving something off that. (100 m is 
nice from a standards development standpoint as it saves us from arguing about 
what lower number is enough.)
The media it runs 
over should not be so stiff or bulky that it is a problem to accomodate with 
normal rack and data center cable management.
Of couse it must 
also meet EMI requirements
 
Regards,
Pat
  
Pat,
I 
  agree that the issues you raised must be addressed by November. One of the 
  biggest challenges for this group is to establish reality on technical 
  feasibility on Cat7, Cat6 and Cat5e channels.  Different vendors have 
  different conclusion on Technical feasibility. That is due to assumptions on 
  alien cross talk mitigation techniques, impact on implementation impairments 
  on SNR, channel model, coding gain, and analysis on chip complexity in a given 
  process. Assumptions must be stated clearly by vendors that present technical 
  feasibility. In this case, technical feasibility drives the broad market 
  potential.  Technical feasibility must be addressed at least based on the 
  following criteria:
1. Achievable distance on Class D channel with and 
  without installation mitigation techniques.
2. Achievable distance on Class 
  E channel with and without installation mitigation techniques.
3. 
  Transceiver complexity in terms of estimated power dissipation and realistic 
  targets for building blocks like ADC, PLL and etc 2-3 years from 
  now.
We reached a conclusion that cat7 cable or class F channel has 
  high enough capacity for 10Gbps operation.  But, can a transceiver be 
  built with reasonable power dissipation and cost say in 90nm process or finer 
  geometries to achieve broad market potential? 
We need to keep in mind 
  that customers have fiber and CX4 as 
  alternatives.
Nariman
At 01:08 PM 7/30/2003 -0600, 
  pat_thaler@agilent.com wrote:
  Bruce,
 
Generally, when 
    the group can agree on clear objectives, then they can finish the rest of 
    the work. Fuzzy objectives often indicate a lack of real 
    concensus.
 
In November, I will 
    also be expecting arguments that support the 5 criteria based on the 
    objectives - 
especially:
Broad market potential - evidence that there will be a 
    broad market the minimum requirements of the objectives are 
    met.
 
Technical feasibility - is 
    it feasible to meet those minimum requirements
 
Economic feasibility - when you have met the minimum 
    requirements will cost be suitable to make it a viable product in the 
    markets? 
 
In the discussions at 
    the plenary, a power consumption issue was raised by some of the speakers. 
    
If the broad market potential is based in 
    part on use in devices such as end nodes (including servers in data 
    centers), then an objective for power consumption such that this can reside 
    in server card formats would be important. Can it fit within the power 
    constraints of a PCI Express board and an Infiniband board (remembering that 
    one has to allow some power for the MAC and probably TOE/RDMAP 
    engine)?
 
Looking at the 
    objectifves in agenda_1_07_03, I don't see any that address power 
    consumption or the abilitiy to live on server card formats. In a quick 
    search, I also didn't find any material on power consumption in the 
    presentations that have been made to the study group. I hope that in 
    September the group will address the issue of 
    power.
 
Regards,
Pat 
    
      - -----Original Message----- 
      - From: Bruce Tolley [mailto:btolley@cisco.com] 
      - Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 1:22 PM 
      - To: Booth, Bradley; stds-802-3-10gbt@ieee.org 
      - Subject: Re: [10GBASE-T] September interim meeting
 
 
- Brad:
 
 
- Thanks for the follow up.
 
 
- I am confident that if we can agree on crisp, clear objectives for 10 
      Gbps reach and media supported in September that we can get our PAR 
      approved and move into Task Force mode, which is where the real work 
      begins.
 
 
- Bruce
 
 
- At 06:35 PM 7/24/2003 -0700, Booth, Bradley wrote:
 
 
        - Study Group Members,
 
 
- Just to let others that were not at the meeting know the outcome of 
        the 802.3 Working Group meeting, the Study Group will have to complete 
        its PAR, 5 Criteria and Objectives in November.  This gives the 
        Study Group the task of completing the PAR, 5 Criteria and Objectives in 
        4 months.  This will make our September Interim meeting extremely 
        important.  We will need to complete the effort as much as possible 
        to pre-submit to the 802.3 Working Group prior to the November 
        Plenary.  November will permit us the ability to modify the PAR, 5 
        Criteria and Objectives prior to asking 802.3 to put the PAR on the 
        NesCom agenda.  The September Interim meeting will focus on the 
        completion of our PAR, 5 Criteria and Objectives.
- Thanks,
- Brad
 
 
- Chair, 10GBASE-T Study Group
 
      Bruce Tolley 
      Senior Manager, Emerging Technologies 
      Gigabit Systems Business Unit 
      Cisco Systems 
      170 West Tasman Drive 
      MS SJ B2 
      San Jose, CA 95134-1706 
      internet: btolley@cisco.com 
      ip phone: 408-526-4534
      "Don't put your hiking boots in the oven unless you plan on eating 
      them."
      Colin Fletcher, The Complete Walker
  
  
Nariman Yousefi
Vice President Networking 
  Engineering
PH  (949) 585 5450
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  Yousefi@Broadcom.com