You are right, 
  Jose.  I used the 55m cat 6 case because that was what the presentations 
  were pitching as the best case for PAM4 – the situation IS even worse for 
  longer lines, or worse for high frequency ANEXT.
   
  By the way, Figure 7 
  is the one you want to look at to see the plots with the crossover of ANEXT 
  & IL.
   
  Jose, I think you 
  meant the 100m models for Class F IL & Class E IL respectively, models 1 
  and 3 (2 is the 55m model). 
  
  To see the results 
  for Model 1 (Class F IL, Class E other params, 100m, 60 dB ANEXT at 100MHz), 
  run: solarsep_varlen7a(-2.5,650,4,100,6,1,7,2)
  To see the results 
  for Model 3 (Class E IL, Class E other params, 100m, 62 dB ANEXT at 100MHz), 
  run: solarsep_varlen7a(-4.5,650,4,100,6,1,6,2)
   
  -george
  -----Original 
  Message-----
From: 
  stds-802-3-10gbt@IEEE.ORG [mailto:stds-802-3-10gbt@IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Jose Tellado
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 
  2004 3:45 
  PM
To: 
  STDS-802-3-10GBT@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [10GBT] Symbol 
  rate
   
   
  I think the case 
  you considered below is for 55m of cat6. The problem is even worse for 
  100m of channel model 1 or model 2 (see http://www.ieee802.org/3/an/public/mar04/kasturia_2_0304.pdf), 
  where the SNR "pinching" happens around 500MHz,
   
  Jose
   
  
  
  
  From: 
  stds-802-3-10gbt@IEEE.ORG [mailto:stds-802-3-10gbt@IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of George Zimmerman
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:19 
  PM
To: 
  STDS-802-3-10GBT@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [10GBT] Symbol 
  rate
  At the March meeting, 
  some of the discussion on leaving the door open to the higher baud rates was 
  aksing to have time to run simulations with the higher baud rates to validate 
  the optimal DFE results presented.
  The MATLAB code has 
  been available on the 802.3an web site for a while now – I assume others have 
  now seen that the ANEXT model we agreed to (49.5-15log10(f/100)) is within a 
  couple dB of the insertion loss at 650 MHz – which means that the penalty for 
  signaling at rates over 500 MHz, where the SNR gets pinched off, is extreme. 
  (to run this case, use: parameters: solarsep_varlen7a(-10.5,650,4,55,6,1,6,2) 
  ).
   
  What these curves 
  tell you is simply that at more than 1Gbaud, you are simply signaling faster 
  than the channel can support, and thus starting out in an SNR hole in building 
  a 10GBASE-T system.
   
  Hopefully at the 
  meeting we can agree to constrain the baud rates and begin to focus our 
  analysis.
  -george
   
  -----Original 
  Message-----
From: 
  stds-802-3-10gbt@IEEE.ORG [mailto:stds-802-3-10gbt@IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Booth, Bradley
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:36 
  AM
To: 
  STDS-802-3-10GBT@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [10GBT] Symbol 
  rate
   
  
  
  
  The objectives do 
  require that we provide one PHY that meets at least 100 meters on Class F 
  and at least 55 to 100 meters on Class E.  A proposed PHY must meet both 
  these distance requirements.  To take this a step further, a PHY or port 
  type has traditionally referred to one PCS, one PMA and one PMD.  So this 
  could be seen as one PHY which has only one PCS, one PMA and one PMD is 
  required to meet both the distance objectives.
 
  
  
  In the past, the 
  Working Group has asked the Task Forces to make the tough decisions and to 
  choose only one PCS, PMA and PMD to meet the objective.  If the Task 
  Force chooses PAM5, then the decision is made.  If the Task Force chooses 
  PAM10, then the decision is made.  If the Task Force chooses PAM5 and 
  PAM10, then the Working Group will likely send the specification back to us to 
  make a decision.
 
  
  
  To quote the movie 
  Highlander, "There can be only one."
 
  
  
  
  
    -----Original 
    Message-----
From: 
    stds-802-3-10gbt@IEEE.ORG [mailto:stds-802-3-10gbt@IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Sanjay 
    Kasturia
Sent: Tuesday, May 
    11, 2004 12:12 PM
To: 
    STDS-802-3-10GBT@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [10GBT] Symbol 
    rate
    At the March 
    meeting, there was a motion to bound the range of symbol rates. The motion, 
    moved by George Zimmerman, suggested  a symbol rate that would range 
    from 714Msym/sec per pair to 1000Msym/sec per pair.
    This motion failed 
    to get the requisite 75% yes vote. Some of the people who voted against 
    this proposal were in favor of schemes that would require higher 
    symbol rates - e.g. 1250Msym/sec per pair but were probably not very 
    familiar with 802.3 operation. With 802.3 voters in the room, the 
    motion would have passed. See the vote tally appended below from the meeting 
    minutes.
    As I understand it, 
    the PAM 4 type schemes that would use the much higher symbol rate 
    would NOT meet our distance objectives but offered some value in that 
    they could enable much lower power transceivers for shorter distances than 
    called for in our objectives. 
    Should these 
    schemes, which do not meet our distance objective, but could still be 
    valuable for customers who want shorter reach and lower power be considered 
    in separate class - possibly in a different forum than 
    802.3an?
    Can our chair, Brad 
    Booth, give us his opinion on this?
    Vote count from minutes of March 
    meeting
    TF Voters Y: 24 N: 15 A: 
    19
    802.3 Voters Y: 21 N: 5 A: 
    9
    
    Sanjay 
Kasturia
    Editor-in-chief
     
    sanjay@teranetics.com
    cell (650) 
    704-7686
    office (408) 
    653-2235
    
    Teranetics 
Inc.
    2953 Bunker Hill Lane, Suite 
    204
    Santa Clara, CA 
    95054