Frank 
  C. -----Original Message-----
From: Frank 
  Effenberger [
mailto:feffenberger@huawei.com]
Sent: 
  Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:50 AM
To: Frank Chang; 
STDS-802-3-10GEPON@listserv.ieee.orgSubject: 
  RE: [8023-10GEPON] [POWER_BUDGET] Report of local discussion
Dear 
  Frank, 
Unfortunately, you are mistaken:  
The current 1G EPON 
  does NOT use PX-10 or PX-20 optics.  
NTT has been telling us that for 
  about a year now.  
Regards,
Frank E.
-----Original 
  Message-----
From: Frank Chang [
mailto:ychang@VITESSE.COM] 
Sent: 
  Thursday, February 22, 2007 12:58 PM
To: 
STDS-802-3-10GEPON@listserv.ieee.orgSubject: 
  Re: [8023-10GEPON] [POWER_BUDGET] Report of local discussion
Frank et 
  al.
I have asked the group similar questions before but in different 
  way. My
interpretation is that we maynot have to do 1/10 coexistence for 
  29dB
budget. If current 1G use PX-10 and PX-20 optics specified at 20dB and 
  24dB,
then assuming 10G optics going to share the same fiber installment, 
  so it
doesnot make any sense to me we have to specify 10G budget as 29dB 
  for the
same ODN. I donot think the extra loss form connector hold true 
  here. 
My understanding 1/10 coexistence is only for 20dB and 24dB 
  budgets, 29dB
budget will be a standalone case for 10G, addressing the apps 
  similar to
gpon B+ case, unless the current 1G deployment use aggressive 
  budgets other
than spec'd. 
Regards
Frank C. 
  
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Effenberger [
mailto:feffenberger@huawei.com]
Sent: 
  Thursday, February 22, 2007 9:03 AM
To: 
STDS-802-3-10GEPON@listserv.ieee.orgSubject: 
  Re: [8023-10GEPON] [POWER_BUDGET] Report of local discussion
Dear All, 
  
I have an observation to make...  It seems that the current 
  standard
specifies loss budgets for PX-10 and PX-20 optics at 20dB and 
  24dB.
However, it should be clear by now that the actual fielded optics are 
  in
most cases producing an Insertion Loss budget of 29dB.  I think we 
  are
missing a standard specification for this. 
If that was all, 
  then IEEE could decide to revise clause 60 (or whatever
editorial method 
  you want to do), or decide not to (and leave the market to
its own devices: 
  pun intended).  However, our task force has embarked on 
  the
standardization of 10/1 optics, and it seems that many folks want 
  to
consider the 29dB budget, and compatibility with 1/1G EPON is also 
  desired.
So, I don't think we have a choice - we need to define what the 29 
  dB power
budget is for 1G EPON.  (And note: by power budget, I mean 
  the specification
of the transmitter and receiver power ranges, any 
  penalties that come to
bear - in short, everything you find in clause 60.) 
  
If we don't specify the budget of the practical 1G EPON optics, then 
  we
cannot do a proper job of considering compatibility, shared use of 
  the
1310nm channel, and so forth.  It is critical.  
So, 
  since we seem to have a gathering of the Japanese companies that are
deeply 
  involved in the 1G EPON deployments, it is a good time to ask them 
  to
please present, to our task force, what is their version of clause 60 
  for
the "29dB" 1G EPON systems, in the field today.  
  
Sincerely,
Frank Effenberger
-----Original 
  Message-----
From: Motoyuki TAKIZAWA [
mailto:mtaki@ACCESS.FUJITSU.COM] 
  
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 2:47 AM
To: 
STDS-802-3-10GEPON@listserv.ieee.orgSubject: 
  [8023-10GEPON] [POWER_BUDGET] Report of local discussion
All,
As 
  I was assigned in the last telecon to form a group to work
on a Tx and Rx 
  characteristic table for the 29dB CHIL especially
from the view point of 
  system vendors, we had a discussion on it
among some Japanese members.
I 
  don't submit the draft table to here now. We did have draft
characteristic 
  tables from some vendors but we ended up modifying
them again considering 
  the issues we came up with in the call.
This is an intermediate report 
  of our talk.
<Date>
Feb 20, 1:00PM-3:00PM 
  JST
<Participants>
Tsutomu Tatsuta    
  NTT
Akihiro Otaka      NTT
Ken-ichi 
  Suzuki    NTT
Tomoaki Masuta     
  NEC
Akio Tajima        NEC
Toshiaki 
  Mukojima  Oki
Shinji Tsuji       
  Sumitomo
Hiroki Ikeda       
  Hitachi
Satoshi Shirai     Mitsubishi
Naoki 
  Suzuki       Mitsubishi
Hiroshi 
  Hamano     Fujitsu Laboratory
Tetsuya 
  Yokomoto   Fujitsu Access
Motoyuki Takizawa  Fujitsu 
  Access
<Assumption>
The assumption of wavelengths were 1.31um 
  for US and 1.57um for DS,
following the solution 3 in the presentation 
  below.
http://www.ieee802.org/3/av/public/2007_01/3av_0701_tatsuta_1.pdf<Downstream>
The 
  main point was wheather applying PIN-PD or APD in the ONU.
Needless to say, 
  PIN should be better for the cost reason, however
we need to take a risk 
  applying 'high power' SOA at the OLT that
has less maturity 
  (reliability).
One idea of judging this is if the ONUs should have the 
  same
architecture for each class(PX10, PX20, ClassB++) as same as 
  802.3ah
standard. It will have an influence on cost and selection for 
  pieces
of components both on the OLT/ONU.
<Upstream>
"PD + 
  Preamp -------- DFB(EML)" would be a preferable solution
for many of us. 
  But we need a narrow band filter between
Preamp(SOA) and PD and it doesn't 
  seem we can have 1G/10G
coexistence at the moment for this reason because 
  1GEPON needs
100nm band around 1310nm.
Possible solutions are:
  
  - Seeking possibility of increasing LD(DFB/EML) power
  - Considering 
  another appropriate wavelength for US
Another topic was the availability of 
  uncooled laser @10G
with broad range of temperature(-40 to +85 degrees C), 
  which
will be expected to use for PX10/PX20.
<Action 
  Item>
- Revise the draft charasteristic table
  DS: PD vs APD, 
  considering if all ONUs should have the
      same 
  arthitecture for each class.
  US: Study two solutions in detail.
- 
  Study availability of uncooled 10G laser with broad temperature
  
  range(-40 to +85 degrees C).
Next discussion will be held on 2/23 
  JST.
[Clarification]
This local talk is actually not a 
  closed one but I think it is
important to make a draft ASAP and that it is 
  good to have a
local discussion among Japanese System Vendors first like 
  I
was asked to in the last telecon, maybe for the reason of
timezone, 
  language, etc...
I think I'll report back to the ad hoc here and we'll have 
  a
fruitful discussion.
Best Regards,
--
Motoyuki 
  Takizawa
Fujitsu Access Ltd. R&D Center