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[802SEC] Please read: Comments on motion to modify 11az CSD

Hi All

I strongly encourage those of you who have already voted "yes" to change your vote to "NO". FWIW I agree with Roger:  If the 11az draft when balloted contains no PHY changes of any kind, is absent of new channel plans/band plans,  or MAC features that would affect over the air behavior, then it would still require explaining;  that is the actual purpose of having a CAD.

The stated rational *might* be an appropriate analysis if there were no PHY changes at all, nor any MAC changes which affected over the air behavior.  I find such situation unlikely given the stated goals of the task group and the scope of the PAR:

This amendment defines modifications to both the IEEE 802.11 medium access control layer (MAC) and physical
layers (PHY) of High Throughput (HT), Very High Throughput (VHT), Directional Multi Gigabit (DMG) and PHYs under concurrent
development (e.g. High Efficiency WLAN (HEW), Next Generation 60GHz (NG60)) that enables determination of absolute and relative
position with better accuracy with respect to the Fine Timing Measurement (FTM) protocol executing on the same PHY-type, while reducing
existing wireless medium use and power consumption and is scalable to dense deployments.
This amendment requires backward compatibility and coexistence with legacy devices. Backward compatibility with legacy 802.11 devices
implies that devices implementing this amendment shall (a) maintain data communication compatibility and (b) support the Fine Timing
Measurement (FTM) protocol.

Since modifications to PHY layer are included, and it seems likely reaching the goal of improved position accuracy will require PHY changes. I would also expect MAC changes which would change external behavior which may (or may not) affect coexistence. The PAR scope requires assessment of coexistence with 'legacy devices" and the 802 rules require at least "consideration" of other wireless 802 standards which may operate in the same bands. The scope of the PAR most definitely allows the task group to propose changes that will impact coexistence with both legacy 802.11 devices and other 802 wireless standards which operate in the same band.

We created the CAD process for good reasons. Why undermine it?


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++10 day EC Electronic Ballot+++ CSD modification approval motion: IEEE 802.11 WG P802.11az CSD modification
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 15:11:05 -0800
From: Roger Marks <r.b.marks@IEEE.ORG>
To: Stanley, Dorothy <>, stds-802-sec@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG


I vote Disapprove.

The argument about the limited coexistence impact seems pretty reasonable, but I think it would be better to transfer that argument into a Coexistence Assurance document and circulate that during ballot so that the broader community can have a chance to review it.



On January 19, 2019 at 12:54:32 PM, Stanley, Dorothy ( wrote:

Dear EC members,


At the 802.11 meeting this past week, WG11 approved an updated P802.11az CSD document, attached, and available here: .


Per Clause 9.2 of the LMSC Operations Manual (â??Sponsor approval of changes to the CSD statement after its initial approval may occur either at plenary sessions or by electronic ballot, as described in 4.1.2.â??), and with Paulâ??s delegation of conduct of the ballot to me, this email opens a 10 day EC electronic ballot to approve the updated P802.11az CSD document.



EC motion: Approve CSD modification documentation in .


In the WG: Y/N/A): 58/0/0


Moved: Dorothy Stanley

Seconded: Jon Rosdahl



Thank you,




For your information, the change to the CSD is shown below.


1.1.2   Coexistence

A WG proposing a wireless project shall demonstrate coexistence through the preparation of a Coexistence Assurance (CA) document unless it is not applicable.

a)     Will the WG create a CA document as part of the WG balloting process as described in Clause 13?
Yes No.

b)     If not, explain why the CA document is not applicable.

The amendment will use the same channel assement methods, modulation, protection and reservation method and same spectral mask as the respective PHY it uses.



Dorothy Stanley

Hewlett Packard Enterprise

+1 630-363-1389


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