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Re: [STDS-802-11-AANI] [Material uploaded] RE: 802.11 AANI SC Teleconference 20-11-17 @11:00 EST Reminder and Agenda



This is an excellent follow up! Thank you for propelling the discussion forward.

This way of advancing the awareness on (a) what the requirements are and forging a good understanding of (b) what we need to accomplish is exactly what we need at this point.


To address the points that you have raised in your contribution, I have developed a follow-up presentation which I hope to upload tomorrow morning before the Conference call. Hopefully, the chair can reserve/allocate some time for its presentation (Contribution #: 1821 (upload pending))


The overall picture that I see emerging now is as follows:

  • Let’s continue to seek volunteers (as well as continue to volunteer for) the various sections of the Templates and start populating these sections. As mentioned earlier, this needs to happen anyway.
  • In parallel, we utilize the Conf. calls to discuss how the requirements can be met.
  • The contributions submitted for these discussions will lead, bit-by-bit to a presentation that can eventually be used for submission to meeting #29 of the WP5D covering:
    •   Here’s our (IEEE 802’s) intention
    •   Here’s how our 5G proposal works
    •   Here’s how it meets the IMT-2020 requirements
    •   Here’s how it can be tested for the 5 test environments
  • Just how much of this material should be used for the first submission can be debated during the F2F meeting.


Thank you once again Roger for setting these important discussions in motion!


Thanks and Kind Regards



From: Roger Marks [mailto:r.b.marks@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 4:15 PM
To: STDS-802-11-AANI@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-AANI] [Material uploaded] RE: 802.11 AANI SC Teleconference 20-11-17 @11:00 EST Reminder and Agenda




Thanks for your response, and particularly for clarifying that your intention is a proposal covering all five test environments.


In order to help AANI ascertain whether there is consensus on such an approach, I've put together a slide set 11-17-1820: 


I've attempted to distill the requirements down to a compact, high-level overview so people can have a big-picture view of the environments in which the requirements are specified.






On November 21, 2017 at 6:10:37 PM, Rakesh Taori (rakesh.taori@xxxxxxxxx) wrote:

Roger, all


There are two questions in Roger’s email below:

  1. “… exactly what you are proposing in terms of contributions to WP5D: what would be contributed, and when”
  2. what is the long-term strategy? (a) get to Step 6 but not qualify for IMT-2020? (b) document that 802.11 can meet all five environments? (c) join with other technologies in a SRIT? (d) other?


Answer to question (1):

  • I am proposing to submit 802.11 as a candidate RIT for IMT-2020 through required documents in accordance with the format and guidelines specified by ITU-R/WP5D (Doc. 5/56).
  • By when? I suggest that we follow the schedule recommended by the ITU-R/WP 5D. (Doc. IMT-2020/2(Rev.1) , IMT-2020 Anticipated Schedule).


Answer to question (2):

  • Option (d) other:
    • i.e. Go all the way (Step 9)! i.e. get 802.11 endorsed as IMT-2020 technology (step 8) and get it implemented (step 9) (see slides #5 and #7 in my presentation from Monday (11-17/1814r0))
    • There is a substantial support to move in this direction. Let us keep up the momentum!
    • Imagine – 802.11 is a 5G technology!
  • This will indeed involve documenting, with analysis/simulations, that 802.11 meets the minimum requirements for 5 environments. Please keep in mind that there are multiple configurations per environment and we only have to meet one configuration per enviroment. We can discuss this further in the next CC


Let me lay out the thoughts in actionable steps:

  • Unless otherwise proven (unambiguously), let’s follow the WP5D-recommended schedule (is an officially agreed document by the ITU-R/WP5D). It is indeed clear that we can keep making updates until June 2019.
  • Let’s make our proposal available to the reviewers/evaluation groups by WP 5D meeting #29 (Jan 31. Submission deadline: Jan 24).
  • Be prepared (not fear) that the first reaction of the external bodies is likely to be that of “dismissing the ability of 802.11” to meet the requirements. We have a lot of socializing to do. The first step would be to not be a delinquent on the deadlines.
  • Either on the 11/27 CC or the 12/4 CC, I am planning to make a presentation elaborating my thoughts on the requirements, hoping to alleviate some of the concerns on “how we will meet the requirements”. If indeed we have until June 2019 to build up the final proposal, we will solve things, one step at a time.


Therefore, and especially given the “holiday season” atmosphere, let’s focus on the work that we have been mandated to do:

  • Let’s get the draft documents ready (Characteristic Template (11-17-1812) and Compliance Template (11-17-1813)).
    • The 1st step is already done. The skeleton for these templates are available (links above).
    • The 2nd step has been laid out by the chair. Please respond to the Chair’s email with sections that you would like to contribute to.
    • In completing the template, we will also get an idea about the confidence level in meeting the IMT-2020 requirements.


In the January meeting:

  • On the administrative front:
    • Discuss how to “throw our hat in the ring”
      • How to announce that 802 will be submitting a proposal
      • What the proposal format should be and to what level of detail should it cover
      • and what would be a suitable presentation to be made in the WP5D meetings 29, 30 and so on.
  • On the actual submission front:
    • Perform a “gap analysis” of what 802.11, as captured in the template, can meet vs. the requirements
    • Discuss how to meet the gaps and create the next set of work item chunks until the next meeting(s).


Hope this answers the questions to some extent. We can discuss further in the conf. calls.


Thanks and Kind regards




From: Roger Marks [mailto:r.b.marks@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 12:13 PM
To: STDS-802-11-AANI@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-AANI] [Material uploaded] RE: 802.11 AANI SC Teleconference 20-11-17 @11:00 EST Reminder and Agenda




I wanted to follow up my comment on today's call, adding a second comment for which there was no time for discussion.


From your contribution, it's a little hard to understand exactly what you are proposing in terms of contributions to WP5D: what would be contributed, and when. As you've shown, the IMT-2020 proposals are due in June 2019. There is no expectation of pre-proposals before that. Some potential proponents reviewed their intentions at last month's workshop, but those were not formal submissions, just informative updates.


As noted by the ANNI Chair today, the WG passed a motion to "Invite AANI to prepare draft documents meeting the 31 Jan 2018 requirements  for submission of 11 to ITU-R Working Party 5D as an IMT-2020 5G RIT." But the content of such a submission is ambiguous, since 31 Jan 2018 requirements are nonexistent. There are many ways for ANNI to prepare a submission in accordance with the invitation. It may be better to first reach consensus on which technologies would be proposed, and for which test environments, before proceeding with the details of analysis and simulation.


This brings me to the other issue I wanted to raise at the end of the call. You correctly cited the language of Step 2 reading "An RIT needs to fulfil the minimum requirements for at least three test environments; two test environments under eMBB and one test environment under mMTC or URLLC." However, before jumping in, let's see what we're getting into. In particular, in Step 6, "the evaluated proposal for an RIT/SRIT is assessed as a qualifying RIT/SRIT, if an RIT/SRIT fulfils the minimum requirements for the five test environments comprising the three usage scenarios. Such a qualified RIT/SRIT will go forward for further consideration in Step 7."


I want to emphasize the distinction. If the proposal meets only three test environment requirements, it can meet the definition of a RIT and be evaluated. However, unless it's assessed to meet all five test environment requirements, it won't be included in IMT-2020.


We should understand the distinction. Step 6 allows for "possible consensus-building for candidate RITs or SRITs including those that initially do not fulfil the minimum requirements of IMT-2020." This allows for RIT that don't meet all the test environments to merge, forming sets of RITs (SRITs) that together can cover all five.


There is a big difference between three and five. Five means meeting, for example:


*Rural eMBB (e.g., 0.45 bit/s/Hz at 500 km/h with cell spacing of 1732 m in 700 MHz band;  0.8 bit/s/Hz at 30 km/h with cell spacing of 6 km in 700 MHz or 4 GHz band)

*mMTC (e.g. 1,000,000 devices per km^2 with cell spacing of 500 m (10 MHz channel) or 1732 m (50 MHz channel)

*URLLC (e.g. 1 ms data plane latency, 0.99999 success probability of transmitting a 32 byte Layer 2 PDU within 1 ms, in 700 MHz or 4 GHz band with cell spacing of 500 m)


So, what is the long-term strategy? Is the idea to:


(a) get to Step 6 but not qualify for IMT-2020?

(b) document that 802.11 can meet all five environments?

(c) join with other technologies in a SRIT?

(d) other?


If the strategy is (c), then one possible purpose of an early submission would be to advertise that intention to possible outside partners.




Roger Marks

EthAirNet Associates


On November 19, 2017 at 8:31:02 PM, Rakesh Taori (rakesh.taori@xxxxxxxxx) wrote:

Dear All,

I have uploaded the following contributions to the document server:

A.      Presentation file (11-17-1814-00-AANI)

o       I have made an attempt to summarize the requirements, the steps involved in the submission, where we are, and what our proposal should/must contain. I have also provided links to all the relevant ITU-R/WP-5D documents required for the IMT-2020 submission (hopefully, this will serve as a one-stop source for links to the relevant documents)

B.      Characteristic Template (11-17-1812-00-AANI-characteristic-template.docx) and Compliance Template (11-17-1813-00-AANI-5G-compliance-template)

o       Both these documents are meant to provide a skeletal framework with all the sections required for the characteristic and compliance template submissions

o       These documents will eventually need to be converted to the ITU-R format

My plan is to go through the presentation file, which should take about 25 minutes, excluding the last slide, titled “Suggested Actions”, which will probably take some additional discussion time. This last slide is aimed at providing some inputs for the “Discussion” and “Task Assignment” agenda items that the chair has already planned in the agenda (slide 12 in 1808r0)).

Thanks and Kind Regards