Thread Links Date Links
Thread Prev Thread Next Thread Index Date Prev Date Next Date Index

RE: stds-80220-requirements: RE: Requirements document - Block size and spectral efficiency



Title: Message
Joseph et al:
Yes, as I and others argued before, I think we should  clearly separate out the regulatory issue of guardbands from the issue of spectrum nom. blocks to be used for the purpose of assessing spectrum efficiency etc. As Joanne pointed out, we are sort of also straying into the issue of evaluation and eval. criteria, but this is inevitable.
 
The 99% rule is in fact that of occupied bandwidth, which has a sound heritage and is well understood..  A common definition is :

Occupied bandwidth for a single carrier is the width of a frequency band such that, below

the lower and above the upper frequency limits, the mean powers emitted are each equal

to 0.5% of the emitted power. This is also known as the 99% bandwidth.

For transmitters in which there are multiple carriers, contiguous or non-contiguous in

frequency, the occupied bandwidth is to be the sum of the occupied bandwidths of the

individual carriers.

I would point out again that we are getting rather hung up with the issue of considering this or that item of IMT-2k.   I appreciate that spectrum used or potentially used for 3G is a factor, but there are many permutations of possible scenario here for 802.20 worldwide - and some of those I am involved in are not at all so-called 3G.  Depending on the circumstances, there are different guardband situations, and I additionally don't think it is always enough to just say, as you do below, Joseph, that  "normally, they are part of an assigned block". Yes, but not always by any means.

It seems to me that the network wide bandwidth concept is pretty clear - but maybe we should clarify with the occupied bandwidth (99%) terminology (?) - and that the guradband issue should be kept separate (but impoirtantly explained and assessed in teh overall process of examining candidate proposals).. The evaluation group can surely assemble a simple set of text that reminds the group that guardbands may be required in many/some situations etc.  As Bob Love reminded us at the ABQ mtg and in a note afterwards, we should not try to be assembling an all-embraccing legal web of inter-related parameters and statements too early, rather we should try to iterate to what we are trying to say at a reasonable pace (= much faster than hitherto !).  Getting too hung up on particular party/ies' perception/s of how he/they would deploy in one favorite scenario, is just Part of The Plan and Not The Plan .......... 

The CG team would then pick up deplyoment guidelines work in due course next year, as discussed at the ABQ mtg. What guardbands would be recommended/necessary in different common situations would then be determined.  Proposers of different AIs could also make suggestions, show results if desired for different situations if they so liked - and as I mentioned before explain to what extent the spec efficiency scales simply - or not - with larger blocks or sub-blocks.  So can I raise, too, the issue of nominal 'default' blocks of 10 MHz or 2 x 5MHz again for a notional deployment - w/o guardbands - for the purpose providing a (reasoned) spectrum efficiency rating inc "internal " overheads.? See earlier correspondence on the other thread on this subject.

BR,  Dave James 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stds-80220-requirements@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-stds-80220-requirements@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Cleveland
Sent: 25 November 2003 14:58
To: 'Humbert, John J [NTWK SVCS]'; 'Shively, David'; 'stds-80220-requirements@ieee.org'
Subject: RE: stds-80220-requirements: RE: Requirements document - Block size and spectral efficiency

John, et. al. 
 
Your first point is correct to a point.  The size of guard bands is a regulatory issue.  Note, however, that the guard bands are not located outside of assigned blocks.  Normally, they are part of an assigned block.
 
I prefer the "99%" rule proposed in earlier email from Joann et. al.
 
Joseph Cledveland
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stds-80220-requirements@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-stds-80220-requirements@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Humbert, John J [NTWK SVCS]
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 10:22 PM
To: Shively, David; stds-80220-requirements@ieee.org
Subject: stds-80220-requirements: RE: Requirements document - Block size and spectral efficiency

The size of the guard bands is dependant on the technology selection and the regulatory environment, thus it is not possible to define the size of the guard bands at this point.  The only thing that we can do is assume that the guard bands are located outside the proposed blocks sizes.

 

Closing out the section on Block Sizes does not preclude a discussion on channel BW's.

 

John J. Humbert
6220 Sprint Parkway
Mailstop KSOPHD0504 - 5D276
Overland Park, KS 66251-6118
PCS (816) 210-9611

-----Original Message-----
From: Shively, David [mailto:david.shively@cingular.com]
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 2:48 PM
To:
Humbert, John J [NTWK SVCS]; stds-80220-requirements@ieee.org
Subject: Requirements document - Block size and spectral efficiency

 

Hi John,

I noticed on your spreadsheet that the section on block size is
due to be closed.  However, several of my comments on spectral
efficiency are also applicable to the issue of block size.  It
seems that there are still several differing opinions on the
block/channel requirements.  This issue was also addressed in the
Albuquerque meeting by Lucent (contribution #105) and also by
Sprint (contribution #112r1).

I am still unclear whether or not the block sizes indicated
(e.g. 1.25 MHz and 5 MHz) include the necessary guard bands.  For
example, if a block size of 5 MHz is used does this mean that I
can deploy this system in a 5 MHz licensed spectrum block such
as the US PCS D, E, and F blocks or the C and D blocks in the
recently announced Advanced Wireless Services spectrum ?  If so,
then clearly this 5 MHz block must include the guardbands.  Or, does
this mean the the actual RF carrier is intended to occupy the entire
5 MHz wide and extra guard bands will be needed?

What about 1.25 MHz blocks?  Does this mean the actual RF carrier
bandwidth is 1.25 MHz  or does the 1.25 MHz block already include
guard bands?

If block size is used in the calculation of spectral efficiency,
then it should be done in a consistent way.  Either use a block size
that includes the guard bands or use the applicable RF carrier
bandwidth and include a definition of how carrier bandwidth is
calculated.

Best regards,
David Shively

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Humbert, John J [NTWK SVCS] [mailto:JHumbe01@sprintspectrum.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 8:06 PM
To: stds-80220-requirements@ieee.org
Subject: stds-80220-requirements: Requirements doc status 11_12_03.xls

 

Attached is an excel spreadsheet showing the status of each section.
There are a number of sections that are pending closure because they
were discussed at the Plenary meeting or there has been no activity for
more than 5 days. 
 <<Requirements doc status 11_12_03.xls>>