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RE: [802SEC] Standards CD-ROM

I agree with Howard. My concern, is the effort to keep track of all of this,
hand out CD's for three meetings, figuring out who are the haves and
have-nots (and I always get the hardship cases to listen to).

If you ask people if they want this, the answer is always YES (not hard to
say if there is no cost to the individual). But what is particularly
bothersome is the problem of keeping up to date - and I upload a standard
rather than use my CD Rom as needed.

I am also concerned with how the Get802Free program is going at IEEE-SA in
terms of any decreasing revenue on sales - so I would like to get an update
from IEEE-SA before we go ahead and make the CD Rom - as I believe the
Get802Free is much more important.

Jim Carlo ( Cellular:1-214-693-1776
TI Fellow, Networking Standards at Texas Instruments
Vice Chair, IEEE-SA Standards Board
Chair, IEEE802 LAN/MAN Standards Committee

-----Original Message-----
[]On Behalf Of Howard
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Standards CD-ROM

I produced the last three 802 CDROMs, with help from Geoff,
Face to Face Events, a dedicated team of guinea pigs who helped
by testing the masters, and of course the WG chairs and editors and
the IEEE staff editors.  All told, it takes about a week's worth of
time, including gathering the files, creating the web pages as aids
to navigation, doing the artwork, creating and proofing the master,
and working with the duplication house. Oh, and don't forget updating
and printing the license agreement on 4.7" x 4.7" card stock.

The cost is between $1500 and $2000, depending on the number of CDs ordered,
the number of colors used on the label, and the style of the package.
We have used an inexpensive paper envelope to save money. Jewell cases
add about 0.40 to the cost of each CD, as I recall. Figure on having the
master and the artwork ready 3 weeks before the meeting to avoid quick turn
fees. I strongly recommend going back to Bill Everett at Projex Co for the
work. Don't bother with alternate bids.  Projex is cheap, accurate, reliable
and easy to work with.

There is also the cost of distribution, which causes a minor logjam
around the registration area when the CDs are handed out. Our agreement
with the IEEE is that the CDs go to voting members only, so everyone's
membership status has to be checked before they can get a CD.

The primary value of the CD is that it is a tangible artifact that you
can hold and show off to your friends. It's cool to be one of only 1000
people lucky enough to have one.

Personally, I find it much easier to copy the 64 MB worth of files onto
my laptop's hard drive. Once I have the files, the CD is merely another
bit of detritus kicking around with the flotsam and jetsam in my brief

With the advent of GetIEEE802, the CD is definitely of less value.
Now, anybody and everybody can get a free copy of any 802 standard,
six months after publication, so the cachet is greating reduced. Since
just about anybody can burn a CD themselves these days, it isn't
terribly unique to have "all of the 802 standards on a single CD" anymore.

I also believe that if you are active in 802, and interested in a particular
standard, the chances are that you were either in the WG or sponsor ballot
pool for the standard, and had access to the drafts.  So, the number
of people who actually benefit from getting the CD because they can get an
early copy of a new standard is pretty small.

On the whole, it is a small expense, and as long as some one is willing to
put the week of effort in to do the job, and it makes at least a few
people happy, then by all means, go ahead.  On the other hand, if the
primary value is the "artifact factor", then we might consider having
pens, coffee cups, T-shirts, ball caps, hacky-sacks, or some other bit of
802 memorabilia made up for distribution in November. How about an 802
fanny pack? An 802 beach towel? An 802 frisbee? Golf balls? Tennis balls?


"THALER,PAT (A-Roseville,ex1)" wrote:
> Mike and Bob,
> The cost to the treasury of creating the CD-ROMs is pretty small - on the
> order of $1000 though it may be a bit higher this time because of our
> greater numbers. The real cost is the time from a few members to prepare
> material and get the production arranged.
> My leaning would be to keep doing it because:
>   a. Standards developers need to be able to refer to the latest drafts
> creating new standards and supplements.
>   b. Discontinuing the CD could send the message that the financial
> 802 is giving to  increase 802 standards availability has reduced the
> availability to the 802 participants.
> But that depends on having the willing volunteers to get the CD ready.
> has always been very involved with that and others may have assisted him.
> Regards,
> Pat
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob O'Hara []
> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 4:11 PM
> To: '802sec (E-mail)'
> Subject: RE: [802SEC] Standards CD-ROM
> Mike,
> I tend to agree with you.  I carry only a handful of CD-ROMs with me and
> 802 standards CD is one of them (though I do have the 802.11, 802.3 and
> 802.1 stuff on my hard drive, too).  I will have to let Bob G respond as
> the cost of the program.
> My feeling on having 802 provide these CD-ROMs is that they are a nice
> little perq for the members.  However, with the proliferation of CR-R and
> CD-R/RW drives out there today, It might be a good time to transition to
> letting the members create their own CD.
> The only reason I can see to produce the CD is to make the documents that
> are not yet available for download available to the members.  This means
> that the CD would contain the documents that will become available for
> download in the next 1-6 months, depending on SB approval cycles, limiting
> the useful life of the CD.  Anything that is approved in the six months
> after the CD is made will become available for download before the next CD
> is pressed, unless we want to go to twice per year distribution.  (I am
> recommending that we go to 2/year.)
> It is my responsibility as recording secretary to produce the CD.  Now is
> the time to decide if we want to continue this practice and, if do
> what the content of the CD will be.
>  -Bob
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> []On Behalf Of Mike Takefman
> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 11:52 AM
> To: Geoff Thompson
> Cc: Bob O'Hara; 802sec (E-mail)
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Standards CD-ROM
> Bob, et al,
> Personally, I do not want to download stuff from GETIEEE and keep in on my
> hard drive. I like the CD ROM and would prefer that we keep it around.
> I will ask my members at our september meeting if they want to keep the
> CD program alive.
> What is the cost of the CD program?
> mike
> > At 09:57 AM 8/21/01 -0700, Bob O'Hara wrote:
> >
> > >With the Get IEEE 802 program, is it still necessary and/or desirable
> > >produce the 802 standards CD-ROM each year?
> > >
> > >  -Bob
> > >
> > >Bob O'Hara
> > >Informed Technology, Inc.
> > >1750 Nantucket Circle, Suite 138
> > >Santa Clara, CA  95054-3822
> > >
> > >Phone:  +1 (408) 986-9596
> > >Fax:    +1 (408) 727-2654
> > >Mobile: +1 (408) 218-4025
> > >Email:
> > >WWW:
> > >
> --
> Michael Takefman    
> Manager of Engineering,       Cisco Systems
> Chair IEEE 802.17 Stds WG
> 2000 Innovation Dr, Ottawa, Canada, K2K 3E8
> voice: 613-271-3399       fax: 613-271-4867