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Re: [802SEC] Interim Results for Rules Change Ballot

I have to disapprove the changes in their current form; however, given the 
default rule currently provided by RR, I believe that the P&P should not be 
silent on this point. I strongly agree with Geoff's point that this whole 
discussion highlights the reason why RR should be advisory only, and not 
mandatory; I would not like to see any of our WGs descend into the sort of 
procedural pissing contest that is only too possible in the hands of 
skilled "parliamentarians".

So far, in ~ 20 years of taking part in 802.1 meetings, I have yet to 
experience a situation where a roll call vote was either requested or 
deemed necessary in a .1 meeting. However, I can appreciate that there may 
be situations in other WGs where that is not the case. To cater for those 
WGs that feel the need for this kind of procedure, I would support a rule 
change that somehow reflects the practice that appears to be current in .3, 
.11, and .17; i.e., that the Chair [as per existing P&P] has the discretion 
to determine the need for a roll-call vote, and will also conduct one if 
requested by a voting member of the WG.

I would further like to see the P&P changed to remove all of the "shall" 
words around use of RR, and make it clear that RR are simply a reference 
work that is available to assist the Chair in determining appropriate 


At 03:46 19/12/2003, Mike Takefman wrote:

>Dear EC members,
>The EC Rules Change ballot on Roll Call Votes is in progress
>and ending of December 30, 2003.
>If I have not recorded your current vote correctly, please
>email me.
>If you have not voted yet, please do so. Comment resolution
>will be in Vancouver, but it seems sunday night is a no
>go for people, I am willing to meet at any other time,
>please let me know what works for people.
>Steve, it is not clear that you are on the SEC reflector,
>please let me know if it fact this is the first you've seen
>of this ballot.
>  Vote categories:         DIS    DNV    APP    ABS
>  -----------------------------------------------
>  01 Geoff Thompson        DIS
>  02 Mat Sherman                  DNV
>  03 Buzz Rigsbee                 DNV
>  04 Bob O'Hara                   DNV
>  05 Bill Quackenbush             DNV
>  06 Tony Jeffree                 DNV
>  07 Bob Grow                     DNV
>  08 Stuart Kerry          DIS
>  09 Bob Heile                    DNV
>  10 Roger Marks           DIS
>  11 Mike Takefman                       APP
>  12 Carl Stevenson        DIS
>  13 Steve Shellhammer            DNV
>  14 Jerry Upton           DIS
>                    total: -5-    -8-    -1-   -0-
>Michael Takefman    
>Distinguished Engineer,       Cisco Systems
>Chair IEEE 802.17 Stds WG
>3000 Innovation Dr, Ottawa, Canada, K2K 3E8
>voice: 613-254-3399       cell:613-220-6991