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Re: [802SEC] proposal for non-NA Plenary soon [was +++EC Email Ballot+++ENDS 13 JAN+++motion to hold plenary sessions outside NA]

I suggest that "we define a future January, May, or September for a
Plenary session and issue a solicitation for hosting proposals." So
that corresponds pretty much with your (1). I'm not proposing to
establish a pattern.

It doesn't bother me that this process could hasten the loss of
membership by some people. If we tried to protect against that, we
could be seen as acting to protect the membership of people who
didn't want to attend sessions outside NA. Of course, WG Chairs would
have the discretion to grant membership retention.


At 14:03 -0500 2005-01-07, Mike Takefman wrote:
>just to be clear, are you suggesting
>1) a 1 time extra plenary to be held outside of N.A.
>2) a 4th plenary as part of regular business to be held outside of N.A.
>3) 1 extra plenary for 2005 and 2006 and 2007 but stopping in 2008
>    based on the expectation that 2008 and beyond will have a non N.A.
>    plenary as a matter of course
>While you highlight the advantage in the extra plenary grants
>membership sooner, it also ages them sooner. Given the current
>state of the membership rules are somewhat broken, this change
>has the effect of shortening the age-out time for a single
>period. While I support a shortened age-out time, I do not support
>a special case caused by "promoting" this interim to plenary
>I remain supportive of getting non NA all-802 interim sessions on the
>schedule ASAP.
>I also believe that a proper survey of our members should be undertaken
>to determine the correct frequency of non-NA sessions. I don't doubt
>that one plenary outside of N.A. is reasonable, but I think we do owe
>it to our membership to make the decision with full information.
>Roger B. Marks wrote:
>>As I have before, I am in favor of plenaries outside North America,
>>and I don't think this is the right motion to solve the problem. So,
>>let me suggest an idea could get us one or more non-NA plenaries
>>before 2008, regardless of the motion.
>>The rules do not specify the plenary calendar, nor even how often
>>they are held. March-July-November is nothing more than a tradition.
>>I suggest that we start looking for opportunities to run a non-NA
>>plenary in January, May, or September.
>>Back at the January 2004 EC ad hoc, I suggested a joint interim
>>outside NA as a partial solution to this problem. I said it would be
>>slightly, if only slightly, less complex than a plenary. Buzz has
>>been supporting this idea. At this point, I've changed my view and
>>would recommend that we upgrade such a meeting to Plenary status. I
>>say that for two reasons:
>>(1) Just calling it a Plenary would give it more prestige value; no
>>one would say "well, it's only an interim.
>>(2) Plenary status carries additional implications on membership
>>rights, giving people additional chances to attain/retain membership
>>without visiting NA.
>>My specific proposal is that, at the March meeting, we define a
>>future January, May, or September for a Plenary session and issue a
>>solicitation for hosting proposals. I am thinking of making a motion
>>to that effect in March, and I welcome views on the idea.
>>At 07:52 -0500 2005-01-07, Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
>>>In terms of our perception as an international SDO, I think it's an
>>>emergency that we are NOT holding a plenary in Asia or Europe for at
>>>least 4 more years.
>>>We (collectively, at least in the majority) seem to keep paying lip
>>>service to "going international," but ultimately at the end of the
>>>day it always seems that there is some excuse for putting off a firm
>>>I am very disappointed that this motion is for a plenary as far in
>>>the future as it is, rather than making something work MUCH sooner (
>>>I cannot believe that a hotel contract for next year or two years
>>>from now cannot be re-negotiated for a later date to allow an out of
>>>NA plenary significantly sooner than 4 years from now), and I'm even
>>>more disappointed that this entire issue is not a no-brainer,
>>>Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 6:59 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ENDS 13 JAN+++motion to
>>>hold plenary sessions outside NA
>>>With some regrets I am voting Disapprove on this motion. If there
>>>was a way to table an email motion or to postpone it to the next
>>>plenary I would attempt that instead.
>>>In principle, I see a value to holding some plenary meetings outside
>>>North America even if that entails a manageable amount of extra
>>>expense and effort.
>>>However, our membership should be consulted generally before we make
>>>this decision. As far as I can recall, we have allowed for such
>>>discussion before making this type of change in the past. While
>>>there was some discussion among the exec and in some of the working
>>>groups about the visa problem last meeting, the motion has only been
>>>raised through Exec reflector discussion and the change has not been
>>>presented at all in some Working Groups.
>>>We are talking about a change for 4 years in the future. This isn't
>>>an emergency. Preliminary investigations of practicality of the
>>>change can begin without the motion. Therefore, the earliest we
>>>should consider this motion is at the end of the March Plenary when
>>>we will have had a chance for discussion in the working groups. It
>>>would be a bad precedent to use an email ballot to decide this
>>>before an opportunity for Working Group discussion.
>>>Ideally, I also would prefer to find out if we have some indication
>>>of willingness of organizations to act as co-hosts (at least for
>>>logistics) before we commit to this action.
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>[]On Behalf Of Paul Nikolich
>>>Sent: Tuesday, 28 December, 2004 1:02 PM
>>>Subject: [802SEC] +++EC Email Ballot+++ENDS 13 JAN+++motion to hold
>>>plenary sessions outside NA
>>>Dear EC members,
>>>This is a email ballot to make a determination on the below motion.
>>>"I move that beginning calendar year 2008, at least one 802 plenary
>>>session shall be held outside of North America in each calendar
>>>Moved: Bob O'Hara
>>>Second: Jerry Upton
>>>The ballot opens 6pm ET Tuesay 28 December 2004  and closes Thursday
>>>13 January 2005.
>>>--Paul Nikolich
>>This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email
>>reflector.  This list is maintained by Listserv.
>Michael Takefman    
>Distinguished Engineer,       Cisco Systems
>Chair IEEE 802.17 Stds WG
>3000 Innovation Dr, Ottawa, Canada, K2K 3E8
>voice: 613-254-3399       cell:613-220-6991

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