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Re: [802SEC] "Get IEEE 802" comments

I want to follow up with some comments on the download statistics.

It would be a mistake to assume that downloads equate to potential or
lost sales. A convenient free download site results in extra downloads. 

For example, both my current and last employer have corproate
subscriptions to IEEE/IEL. The employees can download the standards from
that site without additional charges. However, because the Get802 site
presents the 802 standards in a list that makes it fairly easy to grab
the right one and on IEEE/IEL one has to sort out the current version
from the list of all the historic revisions, people often download from
Get802 instead of IEEE/IEL.

Because the site is free and convenient, there will also be cases of
repeated downloads - e.g. someone getting it that way rather than moving
the file they already bought from computer to computer or downloading to
ensure they are working from the correct version.

The statistics don't reveal how many downloads represent a new transfer
of the standard to a person who would have had to buy the standard if
Get802 didn't exist.

-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
[] On Behalf Of Roger B. Marks
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [802SEC] "Get IEEE 802" comments


I haven't heard a response to my note below of 14 March. As part of this
reminder message, I've checked the web site to see if any of these
issues has been addressed.

(1) The six-month "waiting list" has been added:
Thank you. However, it is seriously deficient. Of the four standards,
three of them link to catalog items listed as "Product not available to
ship." Two of these are CD-ROMs, and one is print. There is no value in
pointing potential customers to products that they don't want and can't
get anyway. The customers want downloadable files, and you have them for
sale. Let's tell them that!

Also, the waiting list is incomplete. I know of at least one missing
standard: 802.15.3b-2005.

Note: the waiting list ought to be linked to the sentence "New and
revised IEEE 802 standards and drafts are available for sale
individually" on the page

Sales of individual standards is a revenue item in the Get IEEE 802
budget. However, the years have dragged on with almost no discernible
effort to sell any. As part of any future discussions regarding the "Get
IEEE 802 Program Agreement", I would like to include a discussion of
which party is responsible for sales and what the expectations are.

(2) I see that you have corrected the links to the obsolete
drafts-for-sale catalog. This is better. The search includes some
superseded standards in addition to drafts, but that's a minor concern.

(3) I continue to be skeptical of your statistical profiles of
downloaders, because I continue to find that there is no survey page
being presented to the downloader. And, as I mentioned before, downloads
continue to be provided with no "Terms and Conditions".



>Every time we discuss the Get IEEE 802 budget, it gets me to thinking 
>about the program itself, and how it might be improved, or even 
>So, I have the following comments:
>(1) The "Get IEEE 802 Program Agreement" says "Documents subject to the

>wait period will be listed on the website with a link to a site where 
>the documents may be purchased." However, I don't see such links at the

>In fact, I don't ever recall seeing such links, even though I've 
>brought up this issue a few times over the years. There is a pointer to

>the IEEE Store, but that's not the same thing; the Store is an easy 
>place to get lost, and it does not include a list of available
>802 documents.
>(2) Are sales of drafts included in the Get IEEE 802 budget? I think 
>IEEE could do a better job of promoting them for sale. It's nice that 
>the web page has two links to the draft sale page.
>Unfortunately, both of those links are dead, because they point to ILI.

>ILI has not been offering 802 drafts since November 1.
>(3) As usual, we discussed the statistical profiles of the downloaders 
>when we met last week. However, I suspect that this data may be out of 
>date. I say this because, when I went to download standards today, I 
>did not receive the survey form. [Neither did I receive a "Terms and 
>Conditions" page to accept.] I found the same results on two different 
>Before we next meet to talk about the program budget, can you see if 
>IEEE can review the web site?

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