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Re: [802SEC] 802 restructuring ad hoc 1pm ET meeting 17 August 2021 to be replaced by 4pm ET Near Term Mixed Mode Meeting sub ad hoc

G’day George

 

I agree with all that.

 

The point of my thought experiments was not the actual numbers (they are incomplete and almost certainly incorrect). It was more about exploring the question of who should pay any marginal costs? Should they be shared equally between F2F and remote attendees or should they be allocated to those who cause them (noting that who causes them depends on one’s perspective)?

 

As I said, I am not advocating anything …

 

Andrew

 

From: George Zimmerman <george@cmephyconsulting.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 17 August 2021 10:45 AM
To: Andrew Myles (amyles) <amyles@cisco.com>
Cc: STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [802SEC] 802 restructuring ad hoc 1pm ET meeting 17 August 2021 to be replaced by 4pm ET Near Term Mixed Mode Meeting sub ad hoc

 

I’ve been through the same thought experiment and there are more complexities if you consider meetings for which there are already plans in place. In the first case, The true cost of the meeting also includes the hotel rooms. in the first case you have a negotiated meeting which now is paying penalties on rooms that the remote attendees are not occupying. Those add to the cost for the remote attendees, greater than the meeting fee itself, since that just covered basic meeting infrastructure.

 

In the second case, unless you are in a condition where the majority of attendees are in the unplanned f2f splinter group, you have a significantly smaller group. Easier to accommodate. More like an 802.3 interim. That group has a lower meeting fee (often none) and doesn’t kill the hotel infrastructure either. Hence it is less expensive than today ( but there is no free lunch, the attendees have to pay hotel rooms, travel, and meals)

George Zimmerman, Ph.D.

President & Principal

CME Consulting, Inc.

Experts in Advanced PHYsical Communications

310-920-3860

 

 


On Aug 16, 2021, at 5:17 PM, Andrew Myles (amyles) <amyles@cisco.com> wrote:



G’day George

 

Your notes on financial considerations inspired me to run a couple of thought experiments.

 

Assumptions

  • The registration fee for a F2F meeting in the old days was about $500 per week (sometimes more)
  • The registration fee for a remote meeting is about $50

 

Thought experiment 1

  • Assume that the baseline is a F2F meeting, with a cost of $500
  • Now assume a group of people decide they would prefer to attend remotely
  • Clearly this group, rather than the F2F attendees, should be responsible for any marginal costs
  • Those marginal costs are likely to be
    • Additional per person costs that arise from a smaller F2F meeting
    • Additional costs from extra gear necessary to support a hybrid meeting
  • My guess is that remote attendance will cost roughly the same as F2F attendance

 

Thought experiment 2

  • Assume that the baseline is a remote meeting, with a cost of $50
  • Now assume a group of people decide they would prefer to attend F2F
  • Clearly this group, rather than the remote attendees, should be responsible for any marginal costs
  • Those marginal costs are likely to be
    • Additional per person costs that arise from a small F2F meeting
    • Additional costs from extra gear necessary to support a hybrid meeting
  • My guess is that F2F attendance will cost roughly the twice today’s F2F attendance

 

In neither case have I accounted for the benefit of F2F vs remote meetings, but that it partially because it is not obvious that a hybrid meeting has the same benefits (in terms of collaboration) as a F2F meeting

 

I am not advocating anything, just thinking out loud

 

Andrew

 

From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org> On Behalf Of George Zimmerman
Sent: Tuesday, 17 August 2021 8:29 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] 802 restructuring ad hoc 1pm ET meeting 17 August 2021 to be replaced by 4pm ET Near Term Mixed Mode Meeting sub ad hoc

 

All – please review https://mentor.ieee.org/802-ec/dcn/21/ec-21-0157-00-00EC-best-practices-for-mixed-mode-ieee-802-lmsc-sessions.docx , as updating this doc will be the main agenda item for tomorrow, near-term mixed mode meeting.

If you have a presentation you would like to have on the agenda, please let me know asap.

-george

 

From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org> On Behalf Of Paul Nikolich
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 12:45 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [802SEC] 802 restructuring ad hoc 1pm ET meeting 17 August 2021 to be replaced by 4pm ET Near Term Mixed Mode Meeting sub ad hoc

 

Dear EC Members and Observers,

 

We are scheduled to have an 802 restructuring ad hoc meeting 1pm ET tomorrow Tuesday 17 August that I have decided to cancel and replace with George Zimmerman's Near Term Mixed Mode Meeting sub ad hoc scheduled for later in the afternoon 4pm ET Tuesday 17 August, coordinates below.

 

Join from the meeting link https://cmeconsulting.my.webex.com/cmeconsulting.my/j.php?MTID=me1457437e58b3a5680ac6bc52f5e51ae
Join by meeting number: Meeting number (access code): 2556 180 6463
Meeting password: M2Cix55ZWka (62249559 from phones and video systems)
Join by phone: +1-415-655-0001 US Toll

 

Please review the 802 restructuring ad hoc meeting notes from the 20 July 2021 below, we will follow up on the action items from the 20 July meeting at our next regularly scheduled 802 restructuring ad hoc on 21 September 2021.

 

Regards,

 

--Paul

 

 

------ Forwarded Message ------

From: "Paul Nikolich" <paul.nikolich@att.net>

Sent: 7/20/2021 5:52:42 PM

Subject: [802SEC] 802 restructuring ad hoc 20 July 2021 meeting notes

 

Dear EC Members and observers,

 

The meeting notes document from today's restructuring ad hoc meeting is at https://mentor.ieee.org/802-ec/dcn/21/ec-21-0171-00-00EC-notes-802-restructuring-ad-hoc-meeting-20-july-2021.docx 

 

 

Thank you to all that participated.

 

Regards,

 

--Paul

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