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Re: [STDS-802-11-CAC] Recorded voting for straw polls

--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Chairs' Advisory Committee Reflector ---
   The recorded Polls from Webex are only if required for Motions.
It is not appropriate to provide Strawpoll results by individual.
Strawpolls are not binding, they provide a means to understand the consensus in the room (or on a call).
While some may say that motions need to be formed after greater than 75% is attained in a Strawpoll, what they are really saying is that they are striving for consensus prior to motions.
But the Strawpoll itself is not the binding element, but rather a tool to determine the consensus of the group at the time the strawpoll was taken prior to making a motion.

No Task Group should be using Strawpolls as binding or formal decisions.  They are a tool to look for consensus.
No Task Group chair should be sharing the details from Webex with anyone other than those required for minutes.

My .02,
Jon Rosdahl                             Engineer, Senior Staff
IEEE 802 Executive Secretary   Qualcomm Technologies, Inc.
office: 801-492-4023                  10871 North 5750 West
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On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 4:35 AM Stephen McCann <mccann.stephen@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Chairs' Advisory Committee Reflector ---
         thanks for raising this issue.

My answer is no for two reasons:

1) Straw polls "...are typically used to select between alternatives before spending (potentially lengthy) time crafting a motion that has a better chance of success.  Straw polls have no formal effect; their outcome is not binding on the operation of any group." [802.11 Operations Manual]. Therefore, it should not be necessary to know the straw poll decision of any individual. If straw polls are being used to determine the technical direction of a task group, then I think something is wrong.

2) This will place a burden on the secretary to correctly record everyone who participated in a straw poll in the minutes. With the current Webex tool, this is quite easy; but what happens when we return to face to face meetings? The whole point of a straw poll is to quickly determine the feeling of a group, before moving on.

Ok, back to reality !  I understand what is happening in some task groups and appreciate that for some recent straw poll decisions, it would certainly be useful to have a record of how folks voted. However, if we want to have an option to allow recorded voting for straw polls, then I think we need to start by updating the 802.11 operations manual or the 802 policies and procedures to formalise straw polls. I personally do not want to go in this direction.

Kind regards


On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 at 09:35, Marc Emmelmann <00000ba26c12414c-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Chairs' Advisory Committee Reflector ---
Dear CAC,

I would like to add the following discussion item to our agenda for the next CAC call:

Should we record the votes for straw poll by default in the minutes (recorded voting)?

If not by default, I would assume that also for straw polls, a recorded voting is permissible
if requested by an attendee.


For motions, we have this already in place, i.e. ""If a motion is not approved by unanimous consent, 
it shall be taken as a roll call [recorded] vote. “ 

For straw polls, this (default) behavior is not defined.


During in-person / face-to-face meetings, attendees can usually get a rough “visual” feedback
who is voting in support or agains a question. Such visual feedback allows to further engage
with individual members for further discussion, which allows to progress on technical aspects
that the straw poll asks for feedback on.

Such “visual” feedback is missing in virtual meetings.

Proposed alternative actions — please provide feedback:

(a) Straw polls are conducted as recorded votes by default

(b) Straw polls are conducted as recorded votes only upon request, which should be
announced before the vote is taken. Unless requested, individual voting is not recorded
during the poll.

(c) The individual voting for a straw poll is always recorded by the Chair, but the
recorded vote is only included in the minutes if requested by a member (also possible
after the meeting, but within 24 hours after the vote occurred).

Personal comment:

I would prefer either option (a) or (b) as the third option (c) adds some overhead for us
as Chairs (need to record the votes and keep them for at least 24 hours even if there
is no request to include them in the minutes).

I would like to avoid situations, in which individual voting is recorded, not included in the
minutes, but feedback on “who voted how” is only provided to the person asking the
question for the straw poll. Any knowledge on “who was in favor / against” should
be made transparently available to all members or to none.

Your feedback is much appreciated.



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