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Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 11bf PDT for D0.1 Threshold-based Sensing Procedure



Hi Mengshi,

 

Thank you for your response.

 

In some sensing situations, it may be true that “The sensing initiator is the device who needs the CSI information”. But, it doesn’t mean the sensing initiator has to be the sensing transmitter or sensing receiver in a sensing procedure.  Also, there could be sensing situations that the initiator doesn’t need the CSI information.

 

The paragraphs are copied from the SFD. Hope it clears the confusion.

 

A sensing initiator is a STA that initiates a WLAN sensing procedure. A sensing responder is a STA that participates in a WLAN sensing procedure initiated by a sensing initiator. A sensing transmitter is a STA that transmits PPDUs used for sensing measurements in a WLAN sensing procedure. A sensing receiver is a STA that receives PPDUs sent by a sensing transmitter and performs sensing measurements in a WLAN sensing procedure (Motion 9, 20/1849r4; Motion 29, 21/1543r1).

 

A STA can assume multiple roles in a WLAN sensing procedure (Motion 9, 20/1849r4; Motion 29, 21/1543r1). In a WLAN sensing procedure, a sensing initiator might be a sensing transmitter, a sensing receiver, both or neither (Motion 10c, 21/0147r3; Motion 29, 21/1543r1).  In a WLAN sensing procedure, a sensing responder might be a sensing transmitter, a sensing receiver, or both (Motion 29, 21/1543r1).

 

Best regards,

Ray

 

From: humengshi <humengshi@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 8:28 PM
To: Rui Yang <Rui.Yang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Oscar Au <oscar.au@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject:
答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 11bf PDT for D0.1 Threshold-based Sensing Procedure

 

Hi Ray,

 

Thanks for your comments. Im not sure if I understand your question correctly. Please see my answer below:

 

Comment 4: Why restricted to initiator only. It can work for any TB-based measurement with a sensing responder acting as sensing Tx. Right?

Answer 4: The sensing initiator is the device who needs the CSI information. When the sensing responder is acting as a sensing Tx, it does not need to feed back the CSI information, because the initiator already knows it by receiving the NDP sent from the responder. Then the initiator does not need to select who needs to feed back at that time.

In addition, I do not limit the roles of the responder to the receiver only. For example, a instance with the responder acting as both the receiver and transmitter is also fine.

 

Best regards,

Mengshi Hu

 

发件人: Rui Yang <Rui.Yang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
发送时间: 2022127 0:05
收件人: humengshi <humengshi@xxxxxxxxxx>
抄送: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Oscar Au <oscar.au@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
主题: RE: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 11bf PDT for D0.1 Threshold-based Sensing Procedure

 

Hi Mengshi,

 

Thank you for incorporating my comments.

 

Regarding my comment 4 on the sentence “The threshold-based sensing procedure is optional, and only applicable to a TB sensing measurement instance where the initiator can be a transmitter ”, by question is why a sensing responder can’t be a sensing transmitter in the threshold-based sensing procedure. I did not ask why the sensing initiator cannot be a sensing receiver.  Hope you see the difference between the two questions.

 

Best regards,

Ray

 

From: humengshi <humengshi@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 8:38 PM
To: Oscar Au <
oscar.au@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Rui Yang <Rui.Yang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc:
STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject:
答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 11bf PDT for D0.1 Threshold-based Sensing Procedure

 

Hi Ray,

 

Thanks for your comments and suggestion.  Regarding the 4th comment, I agree with Oscars reply (Thank you Oscar for the reply). If the AP is a receiver, there is no need to have a report procedure.

 

Regarding the other comments, please see my comments below:

Comments 1: What is selection procedure, and additionalto what? In other words, if this is additional, what is the other selection procedure?

Answer 1: I assume there is a TB procedure introduced in the other subclauses without the selection procedure. Thus I use the word additional here, which is compared with the traditional TB case. We can further updated this later if the other part is clear, and then I will add those subclauses as the references. To avoid confusion, I can delete it this time.

 

Comments 2: Should mention the figure is an example.

Answer 2: Agree. Updated.

 

Comments 3: Should mention the figure is an example.

Answer 3: Agree. Updated.

 

Comments 4: Why restricted to initiator only. It can work for any TB-based measurement with a sensing responder acting as sensing Tx. Right?

Answer 4: Please see Oscars comment below.

 

Comment 5: The selection procedure in the threshold-based sensing is used to reduce the number of receivers being triggered in the Measurement Report procedure. Motion 18 and 33 do not indicate or imply this sentence.

Answer 5: Thats the motivation of the threshold-based sensing procedure. I can delete it this time.

 

Comment 6: This part of sentence is not necessary and confusing. The paragraphs below provide the information about the threshold.

Answer 6: I will delete it here.

 

Comment 7: Sensing transmitter instead of transmitter

Answer 7: I will add the word sensing before the initiator

 

Best regards,

Mengshi Hu

 

 

发件人: stds-802-11-tgbf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <stds-802-11-tgbf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 代表 Oscar Au
发送时间: 2022126 7:50
收件人: Rui Yang <
Rui.Yang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
抄送:
STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 11bf PDT for D0.1 Threshold-based Sensing Procedure

 

Rui,

 

For your comment RY4: If the sensing initiator is the sensing receiver, my understanding is that there is no need to do the reporting phase and there is no need of the threshold-based sensing procedure.

 

Oscar

 

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:20 AM Rui Yang <Rui.Yang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Mengshi,

 

Thank you for sharing the draft of the PDT. Please find my comments in the attached file.

 

Best regards,

Ray

 

From: humengshi <0000179fd8c5ace5-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 3:41 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGBF]
答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 11bf PDT for D0.1 Threshold-based Sensing Procedure

 

Hi Rajat,

 

Thanks for your suggestions and comments. Please see my answers below:

 

Comment 1: Typo: basd

Answer 1: Ive changed it. Maybe Ill use TBD for this frame later according to some suggestions.

 

Comment 2: How is the threshold being set?

Answer 2: The threshold for each responder to be compared with the CSI variation value is determined by the initiator, and is transmitted to each receiver through a TBD frame.

I think this frame could be the NDPA frame or the trigger frame. In this version I use TBD for it.

 

Comment 3: The Threshold-based Subvariant Sensing Trigger frame and how is it different than the existing Trigger frame?

Answer 3: Ive shown in the Discussion that the Threshold-based Subvariant Sensing Trigger frame is a newly added subvariant frame (Just want to give a name for it). Since I find that some people have concerns about using a new subvariant frame, I will make it a TBD frame in the updated version. The difference is that a new subvariant frame can have a different User Info, and this Info can contain the threshold related information such as the threshold value per user. Actually Im open to the design. If people think a unified trigger is good enough, Im also fine with it.

 

Best regards,

Mengshi Hu

 

 

发件人: Rajat PUSHKARNA <rajat.pushkarna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
发送时间: 2022125 16:01
收件人: humengshi <
humengshi@xxxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: RE: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 11bf PDT for D0.1 Threshold-based Sensing Procedure

 

Hi Mengshi,

 

Thanks for preparing the PDT. Please find my comments attached herein.

 

Thanks.

 

Best Regards,
Rajat.

 

From: humengshi <0000179fd8c5ace5-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:31 am
To: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 答复: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 11bf PDT for D0.1 Threshold-based Sensing Procedure

 

Hi Dongguk,

 

Thanks for your comments.

Regarding your first comment, you can see from that figure, for the sensing receiver 2, there is no need to feedback the CSI information. What the receiver 2 feeds back is the CSI variation in the Selection Procedure. In the case of a room without some object motions, there is a high possibility that only the Selection procedure is needed for a receiver. Thus the overhead can be saved in this case. Note that compared with the CSI information, the CSI variation only consumes several bits, which can be negligible if the CSI information size is large.

 

Regarding the second comment, the reason I choose a new trigger frame subvariant instead of a reporting subvariant is: we need to convey maybe a 4-bit threshold for each receiver. If this is conveyed in the NDPA, maybe its fine to only define a reporting subvariant. However, if the 4-bit threshold information per user is conveyed in the trigger, its better to define a new one and let them be in the Trigger Dependent User Info. In general, Im open to the design. I can make it TBD this time. Thanks.

 

Best regards,

Mengshi Hu

 

 

 

发件人: stds-802-11-tgbf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <stds-802-11-tgbf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 代表 Dongguk Lim
发送时间: 2022125 8:33
收件人: 'HUANG LEI' <
huang.lei1@xxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
抄送:
hg.cho@xxxxxxx
主题: RE: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 11bf PDT for D0.1 Threshold-based Sensing Procedure

 

 

Hi Mengshi,

 

Thanks for your drafting the spec text.

I added my comments in the attached.

Please see my comments.

 

best regards,

Dongguk.

 

 

From: HUANG LEI [mailto:000013c45bbec18b-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2022 6:24 PM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 11bf PDT for D0.1 Threshold-based Sensing Procedure

 

Hi Mengshi,

 

Thank you for preparing this draft text. Attached please find my comments.

 

Best regards,

Lei

 

From: humengshi <0000179fd8c5ace5-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2022 10:37 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 11bf PDT for D0.1 Threshold-based Sensing Procedure

 

Hi all,

 

I’ve written a PDT for the threshold-based sensing procedure, which has been uploaded to the Mentor: https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/22/11-22-0134-00-00bf-pdt-threshold-based-sensing-procedure.docx

This PDT reflect the Motions 18 and 33 shown in 11-20/1847r40. Your comments and suggestions are welcome.

 

Mengshi Hu

 


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