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These sorts of grumblings have gone on for years, and from what I can tell, while the officers may get a few perks here and there, it's not as great as many people suspect. If nothing else it serves as some compensation for all of the work that goes into searching, planning, negotiating, etc. While Face-to-Face does most of the heavy lifting, a lot of work often uncompensated falls onto the officers themselves. So I've learned to just eat my bagel & muffin in the morning and my ice cream bar in the afternoon, be thankful that I don't have do do all of that stuff to make these meetings work, and not begrudge them for the few special considerations the hotels may offer to these people for their trouble.However, I've also learned that sunshine is a wonderful disinfectant against such suspicions. So as much transparency as possible would go a long way towards satisfying people's concerns. If some people get special benefits, then go ahead and say so, put that in context to the hours of work to make the arrangements and the offsets the hotels provide in return and how that benefits the rest of us.While it's easy for me to say this off the cuff, I also recognize that one of the main reasons it hasn't been done before, at least to this extent, is because documenting all of this adds even more work onto the overworked officers who plan these meetings.I say these things as an unaffiliated individual with no sponsor paying for me to attend these meetings. I pay for all of my own expenses out of my own pocket. So far, using frequent traveler points, all of my airline and hotel reservations for the November meeting have cost me a total of 5 bucks! (I wasn't so lucky in Geneva). The $500 early-bird rate for the IEEE 802 registration is 100 times as large as any other outlay so far, so it's a significant burden on me as much or more than anyone else. I don't begrudge the EC for this high fee (Well, maybe a little...), but I do wish they could offer "frequent attendee" points towards discounts on future registration fees. ;-)-- Ed ReussOn Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Jon Rosdahl <jrosdahl@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Working Group Reflector ---Yes, and the hotels' "benefits and bonuses" are included in the budgets and is used to reduce our expenses on the "master account" (the main bill from the hotel). The contracts for the hotel stipulate what is provided, and that is monetized into the budgets that are reported by the Treasures.Jon
_______________________________________________________________________________On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Paul Lambert <paul@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks for the update. This is helpful information for everyone especially for those who have just starting to get involved in 802.11. As you know, selecting venues, defining requirements, selection criteria, and determining cost and plan budgets has a been never ending subject for debate for the past 20 years.Do the individuals that make the hotel arrangements disclose the benefits and bonuses received from the venue? Most hotels give very large numbers of "points", free rooms, vacation packages, etc. to the the organizer.Transparency on the benefits received for selecting a venue might help the membership have confidence in the fairness of the process.Paul_______________________________________________________________________________
The links you provided are very useful as well, however It would be helpful for the ExCom to agree to and publish a document covering the points you highlighted and any other details that are requirements and policy for selecting a new venues. This would be beneficial not only to 802.11 participants but to every 802 working group.
This then would become an ExCom policy document that could be reviewed and updated annually and make a great go to document for everyone.
Al
From: *** IEEE stds-802-11 List *** [mailto:STDS-802-11@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jon Rosdahl
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 9:39 AM
To: STDS-802-11@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11]
--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Working Group Reflector ---
Hello all,
During the Nanjing Interim Session, we had a few discussions on the process of site selection and Sponsorship, and how members of 802.11 could help in that process. I thought I would try to capture the process in order to address the transparency question and to set the expectation of how you might be able to help.
While this is not an exhaustive list, this summary should provide a feel for the task of locating and securing venues for our sessions.
1. Selecting Possible Venue Sites:
Potential venue sites are identified by a couple different means. Some venues we have traveled to before, and are familiar with, and so we obviously have potential good price alternatives with these venues. Some of these venues are more popular than others, so we do look at the potential of reusing venues that worked well.New Sites - New Sites are found by either the Meeting Planner getting approached by their contacts, or by members of the 802 community having some knowledge of the potential venue, and informing the leadership of the possibility. Please see more on this later. It is important we do not waste meeting planner time on obvious blind leads. New Sites are then contacted by the meeting planner to determine the viability of the site (did it have the dates available, is it large enough for our delegation, does it have enough meeting space -- number of break-out rooms and size of the break-out rooms are critical consideration, can it support our networking requirements, etc) and to become the primary contact with the venue.
Evaluation and selection is done through filtering out those possibilities that do not meet the basic requirements and then those that are still viable are asked to respond to an RFP (Request for Proposal). Some venues do not respond to RFP as they do not believe that they want to deal with our group (sometimes we are too small, sometimes we are too large, other times we are not providing enough sleeping beds to justify to the hotel for the meeting space requirements).Break-out rooms that are used by the 802 Wireless are usually a minimum of 20, but that is often felt to be limiting, and so we have used as many as 20-25 in some of the recent 802 Wireless Interim venues. For the Plenaries, the need is on the order of 35-45 or more rooms. The rooms need to be a variety of sizes..some need to be large enough to hold the entire group (300-400) and then a 2-3 that can handle 75%, 60%, 50%, and then several more that cover 30%, 20%, 10%, 5% of the total group. The specific numbers are hard to guarantee, but a rough idea can be found here where we have the meeting specs.
The actual selection of locations and venues is done by the leadership. For the Plenaries, there is a "Future Meetings" meeting each plenary session, where different options and choices are discussed. Then the 802 EC discussion on Monday and Friday of each session is conducted prior to a motion for approval. For the 802 Wireless Interim Sessions, the 802 Wireless Chairs meeting is held on Sunday prior to each plenary and interim session where the future options are discussed, and the choices made.
2. Contracts and Bids
The only one that should contact venues for actual bids on behalf of IEEE 802 or the 802 Wireless groups is the Meeting Planners as authorized by the leadership of 802/802 Wireless chairs. While it is fine to have help in locating possible venues, once identified as a potential, the contacting of the property for use by our groups should only be done by those properly authorized. It is been seen in the past that getting individuals involved at the wrong level has caused problems, and so to avoid that going forward, I would ask that no one try to represent the IEEE 802 or 802 Wireless group without proper prior written authorization.
3. Criteria for Hotel selection
Hotel properties have proven in the past to be the better choice for our meeting style and the way we have become accustom to meeting. We have also found that while not ideal, we do find convention center or multiple meeting hall spaces that have worked out to provide a good meeting. Criteria for Hotel selection is not just the cost of the sleeping room (however, rooms over $250-$300 per night tend to be an immediate show stopper). We also look at the number of rooms in the hotel, what is the Food and Beverage facilities, is the hotel located where it can reasonably be reached. The quality of the hotel is also considered and used in the evaluations of potential venues.
4. How can someone help.1. When you see a venue that might work notify a member of the leadership (802 ExSec for Plenaries, or a Wireless 802 Chair for the 802 Wireless Interim possibilities). Let the meeting planner initiate the contact and bid processes, and be willing to assist as requested. Remember that meeting planner time is valuable and that even an initial assessment can be a lot of work for both the meeting planner and our network service providers. These services are not free. We can not go chasing suggestions where you have no personal knowledge of the venue. Before making a suggestion, please make sure the hotel has at least 16-20 meeting rooms. Ideally you would suggest a venue where you may have attended some other meeting and have a sense that it is big enough and good value for money, not just some venue that you think is in a nice place but otherwise have no knowledge. That way we are not spending valuable resources chasing blind leads.
2. Share the Sponsor invitation letter with your employer or other contacts you may have in the target venue area and encourage Sponsorship of meetings. Some Meeting Venues are cost prohibitive, but with the right sponsor(s), we can make the session work just fine. Please use the letter found here: https://mentor.ieee.org/802-ec/dcn/12/ec-12-0046-02-00EC-plenary-sponsor-invitation-letter.pdf
3. Assist in local information -- if a Venue is in your hometown, or an area that you are very familiar with, share information on where to eat, things to see etc. Sharing this information with the Meeting Planners allows them to include it in the information packets that are prepared for each of the sessions.4. Be aware of where we have commitments and where we are looking in the future.
There are several sites that provide information for where we are planning to be in the future:
802.11: http://www.ieee802.org/11/Meetings/Meeting_Plan.html
802.15: http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/15/pub/Meeting_Plan.html
Please remember that finding venues is a non-trivial activity. Input on where we may go in the future is welcome, but not every suggestion is going to be workable. We have a lot of commitments already in place, and hopefully by the March 2014 Plenary, the calendar through 2018 will be completely filled in.
Regards,
Jon
IEEE 802 Exec Secretary
IEEE 802.11 1st Vice Chair
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Jon Rosdahl Standards Architect
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Jon Rosdahl Standards Architect
hm:801-756-1496 CSR Technologies Inc.
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A Job is only necessary to eat!
A Family is necessary to be happy!!If you wish to be removed from this reflector, do not send your request to this reflector - it will have no effect.
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Jon Rosdahl Standards Architect
hm:801-756-1496 CSR Technologies Inc.
cell:801-376-6435 10871 North 5750 West
office: 801-492-4023 Highland, UT 84003
A Job is only necessary to eat!
A Family is necessary to be happy!!If you wish to be removed from this reflector, do not send your request to this reflector - it will have no effect.
Instead, go to http://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=STDS-802-11 and then press the LEAVE button.
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