Thanks.
Yair
From: Winkel, Ludwig
[mailto:ludwig.winkel@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 10:34 PM
To: Darshan, Yair
Cc: STDS-802-3-RTPGE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [802.3_RTPGE] Fw: [802.3_RTPGE] PoE ad hoc - new
information
Yair,
Sorry for being late in answering your questions:
Type testing requirements for communication networks and systems in
substations are described in IEC 61850 Part 3: General requirements.
Clause 5.7 handles the environmental conditions for EMI immunity
including conducted disturbances/surges (5.7.1.2):
Surges as per IEC 61000-4-5 (test levels to class 4) with waveforms
1,2/50 µs and 10/700 µs and peaks up to 4 kV.
Conditions to be met (5.7.4.2):
The equipment shall be considered to have passed the tests if -
during, or as a result of, the tests - all of the following conditions are met
for the equipment and the connected devices:
- no hardware damage occurs;
- no change in calibration beyond normal
tolerance is caused by the test;
- no loss or corruption of stored memory
or data occurs, including active or stored settings;
- system resets do not occur, and manual
resetting is not required;
- established communications are not
permanently lost;
- if disrupted, established communications
automatically recover within an acceptable time period;
- communication errors, if they occur, do
not jeopardize the protective or control functions;
- no changes in the states of the
electrical, mechanical, or communication signal outputs occur. This
includes alarms and atatus outputs;
- no erroneous, permanent change of state
of the visual, audible, or message outputs occurs. Mementary changes in
these outputs during the tests are permitted;
- no error outside the normal tolerances
for data communication signals (SCADA analogues) occurs.
With best regards,
Ludwig Winkel
Siemens
AG
Industry Sector
Industry Automation Division
Sensors and Communication
Fieldbus Communication
I IA SC FC
Oestliche Rheinbrueckenstr. 50
76187 Karlsruhe, Germany
Tel.: +49 721 595-6098
Mobile: +49 172 6132658
mailto:ludwig.winkel@xxxxxxxxxxx
Siemens
Aktiengesellschaft: Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Gerhard Cromme; Managing
Board: Peter Loescher, Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer; Roland
Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann
Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael Suess; Registered
offices: Berlin and Munich, Germany; Commercial registries: Berlin
Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, Munich, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-No. DE 23691322
From: Darshan, Yair
[mailto:YDarshan@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012 08:52
To: Winkel, Ludwig; STDS-802-3-RTPGE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [802.3_RTPGE] Fw: [802.3_RTPGE] PoE ad hoc - new
information
Hi Ludwig,
Thanks for
the info.
Few
questions:
1.
How the 4KV surge on
signal lines is applied? Through capacitive clamp other contact? On each wire
separately relative to chassis?
2. What do you mean by "PoE
channels will be treated like non-PoE channels"?
Thanks
Yair
Darshan Yair
Chair
Power over HDBaseT Subcommittee
HDBaseT Alliance
Chief R&D Engineer
Analog Mixed Signal Group
Microsemi Corporation
1 Hanagar St., P.O. Box 7220
Neve Ne'eman Industrial Zone
Hod Hasharon 45421, Israel
Tel: +972-9-775-5100,
Cell: +972-54-4893019
Fax: +972-9-775-5111
E-mail: <mailto:ydarshan@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>.
From: Winkel, Ludwig
[mailto:ludwig.winkel@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:51 PM
To: STDS-802-3-RTPGE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [802.3_RTPGE] Fw: [802.3_RTPGE] PoE ad hoc - new
information
Dave et al,
The requirements from Industrial Automation according the question
list FYI:
1. Is PoE as defined in Clause 33 of the current standard adequate
for RTPGE?
Yes, IEEE 802.3at is adequate in principle, some
additional requirements exist:
- For substation automation, 4kV surge on signal lines without
interference transmitted should be supported.
- A chassis ground is always available.
- The maximum length of a PoE segment is 100m.
- PoE channels will be treated like non-PoE channels.
- A daisy-chain configuration may be desirable.
The EEE for industrial automation is done by using a higher layer
protocol for Device-shut-down, not by switch off the power.
With that we can daisy chaining the power to decouple the topology
from the logical grouping of devices that can be switched off.
With best regards,
Ludwig Winkel
Siemens
AG
Industry Sector
Industry Automation Division
Sensors and Communication
Fieldbus Communication
I IA SC FC
Oestliche Rheinbrueckenstr. 50
76187 Karlsruhe, Germany
Tel.: +49 721 595-6098
Mobile: +49 172 6132658
mailto:ludwig.winkel@xxxxxxxxxxx
Siemens
Aktiengesellschaft: Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Gerhard Cromme; Managing
Board: Peter Loescher, Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer; Roland
Busch, Brigitte Ederer, Klaus Helmrich, Joe Kaeser, Barbara Kux, Hermann
Requardt, Siegfried Russwurm, Peter Y. Solmssen, Michael Suess; Registered
offices: Berlin and Munich, Germany; Commercial registries: Berlin
Charlottenburg, HRB 12300, Munich, HRB 6684; WEEE-Reg.-No. DE 23691322
From: Dave Dwelley [mailto:ddwelley1@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012 20:31
To: STDS-802-3-RTPGE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [802.3_RTPGE] Fw: [802.3_RTPGE] PoE ad hoc - new information
Another clarification
- discussion about a CFI in particular is out of scope in this meeting.
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Dave Dwelley <ddwelley1@xxxxxxxxx>
To: STDS-802-3-RTPGE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:39 AM
Subject: [802.3_RTPGE] PoE ad hoc - new information
A couple
of clarifications: the meeting this afternoon is intended to address all PoE
topics, not just RTPGE-focused topics. The goal is to decide whether it makes
sense to hold a new CFI to address all PoE topics, including RTPGE, PoE++, and
any other relevant PoE topics. Please invite anyone who can contribute (and is
present in San Diego) who is not on the RTPGE reflector.
The RTPGE
meeting is expected to break around 2:30 today, so this PoE meeting will start
immediately afterwards. Meet in the lobby outside Manchester D.