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Re: [802.21] Agenda for September Meeting

 Somehow Phil's mails are not posted in .21 reflector. It actually 
explains a few things.
Thanks for forwarding it.


Suman Sharma wrote:
> Phil,
>  I will agree with your reading and have seen this process followed in
> 802.11 many times. In cases where there are multiple candidates and WG Chair
> doesn't want to make decision, WG Chair asks SG to "recommend" one person
> (its all up to WG Chair) and SG reaches that "recommendation" by doing vote
> in SG (and as per 7.4.2 any vote in SG everyone present can vote).
> On the other side WG still need to "affirm" the person whoever WG Chair
> "appoints" as SG chair.
> -Suman
> On 9/12/07 9:08 AM, "Phillip Barber" <>
> wrote:
>> Suman, Ajay, Peretz and all,
>> I would say a fair reading of 7.4b would be that the WG Chair Appoints the
>> SG Chair (as the WG Chair makes all appointments in a WG, for instance TG
>> and Ad-Hoc Chairs), and that the WG Members are expected to affirm the
>> Appointment through vote. Should the Chair's selected appointee not be
>> affirmed, then the Chair would have to re-select and another affirmation
>> vote would be taken.
>> Procedurally, if the Chair wants to devolve his appointment authority on
>> this matter, selectively this one time, and let the SG Members conduct an
>> election of the SG Chair, it seems to me he/she can probably can do that.
>> Remember, Chairs decide matters of procedure, including how that procedure
>> is conducted. And the EC is never going to fault a Chair for giving Members
>> the opportunity to vote on matters, especially if that is the right to elect
>> their own leadership.
>> That being said, the WG Members would still be expected to affirm any such
>> SG Chair election through vote. Should the SG elected, candidate Chair not
>> be affirmed, then either there would have to be another SG election and WG
>> affirmation until an elected candidate was affirmed, or the Chair could
>> revert to the normal method of appointment and affirmation, or the Chair
>> could devise some other compliant procedure to get a SG Chair, that included
>> WG affirmation.
>> This is my opinion on this procedural question.
>> Thanks,
>> Phil
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stds-802-21@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG [mailto:stds-802-21@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG]
>> On Behalf Of Suman Sharma
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 10:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: [802.21] Agenda for September Meeting
>> Please read the 802 LMSC P&P  section 7.4.2
>> ***********************
>> 7.4 Study Groups 
>> Study groups are formed when enough interest has been identified for a
>> particular area of study,
>> such as a new access method or modified use of an existing access method.
>> Two types of Study
>> Groups are specified:
>> a) An Executive Committee Study Group (ECSG) is initiated by vote of the
>> Executive 
>> Committee and the ECSG Chair is appointed and approved by the Executive
>> Committee. 
>> The ECSG Chair has the same responsibilities as a Working Group Chair as
>> specified in 
>> subclause but does not have Executive Committee voting rights.
>> b) A Working Group Study Group (WGSG) is initiated by vote of the Working
>> Group or 
>> TAG and approved by the Executive Committee. The WGSG Chair is appointed and
>> approved by the Working Group or TAG.
>> The Study Group shall have a defined task with specific output and a
>> specific time frame
>> established within which it is allowed to study the subject. It is expected
>> that the work effort to
>> develop a PAR will originate in an ECSG or WGSG. A Study Group shall report
>> its 
>> recommendations, shall have a limited lifetime, and is chartered
>> session-to-session. A study
>> group is expected to submit a PAR to the EC for consideration within two
>> plenary sessions of
>> itıs initiation.  After the Study Group recommendations have been accepted
>> by the parent body,
>> the Study Group will be disbanded no later than the end of the next Plenary
>> Session. 
>> The decision of whether to utilize an existing Working Group or TAG, or to
>> establish a new 
>> Working Group or TAG to carry out recommended work items shall be made by
>> the Executive 
>> Committee with due consideration of advice from the Study Group.
>> 7.4.1 Study Group Operation
>> Progress of each Study Group shall be presented at Opening Plenary meetings
>> by the Working 
>> Group, TAG, or ECSG Chair. Study Groups may elect officers other than the
>> Chair, if necessary,
>>   FILE: LMSC_P&P_NOVEMBER_2005_R051204.DOC
>> and will follow the general operating procedures for Working Groups
>> specified in subclauses
>> and 7.2.4. Because of the limited time duration of a Study Group, no
>> letter ballots are
>> permitted. 
>> 7.4.2 Voting at Study Group Meetings
>> Any person attending a Study Group meeting may vote on all motions
>> (including recommending
>> approval of a PAR). A vote is carried by 75% of those present and voting
>> ³Approve² or 
>> ³Disapprove.² 
>> **************************
>> Regards
>> Suman
>> On 9/12/07 7:54 AM, "Ajay Rajkumar" <> wrote:
>>> I am a little surprised at the procedure that was mentioned to choose
>>> the SG Chair. If the SG is approved as a WGSG then how is it that anyone
>>> present for the SG could vote for a SG Chair. I would think that only
>>> the WG members are eligible for this vote.
>>> -ajay
>>> Gupta, Vivek G wrote:
>>>> I have placed a preliminary agenda for the September meeting on 802.21
>>>> web site.
>>>> 0-Session22_Hawaii_Agenda.doc
>>>> The Security Study Group will meet as follows:
>>>> Monday September 17 from 4-6 PM (PM2 slot)
>>>> Wednesday September 19 from 1-6 PM. (PM1 and PM2 slots, PM2 if required)
>>>> The Security SG Chair elections will take place on Monday at 4:00PM.
>>>> As previously mentioned we currently have three candidates for the Chair
>>>> position and all the Security SG participants will vote and elect the
>>>> Security SG Chair at this time.
>>>> As already mentioned by Behcet, the Multi-Radio Power Management
>>>> Conservation Study Group will meet on Tues and Thurs from 8-10 AM:
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> -Vivek