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RE: 10Gig Copper Strawman




Hi Les,

I appreciate your points. They align with Howard Frazier's comments at
the IEEE meetings. Apparently Cisco is not seeing demand for short copper
interconnects.

As for CX, I believe that there are a number of factors that limited 
it's implementation which may or may not impact 10Gig. Initial problems
with EMI, and two different connectors which led to confusion.

There are a lot of proprietary copper interconnects today and we can 
avoid confusion for the customer if we come up with a single, well
architected solution that allows multi-vendor interconnection. Unlike
Gigabit, we won't have a 10000BASE-T alternative to look for as a cost
alternative to fiber. This will be it.

Regards,

Dan Dove
___________     _________________________________________________________
_________    _/    ___________  Daniel Dove         Principal Engineer __
_______     _/        ________  dan_dove@xxxxxx     LAN PHY Technology __
_____      _/           ______  Hewlett-Packard Company                __
____      _/_/_/ _/_/_/  _____  Workgroup Networks Division            __
____     _/  _/ _/  _/   _____  8000 Foothills Blvd. MS 5555           __
_____   _/  _/ _/_/_/   ______  Roseville, CA 95747-5555               __
______        _/      ________  Phone: 916 785 4187                    __
_______      _/      _________  Fax  : 916 785 1815                    __
__________  _/ __________________________________________________________


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Les Poltrack [mailto:lap@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 1:53 PM
> To: DOVE,DANIEL J (HP-Roseville,ex1); '10GigCopper'
> Subject: Re: 10Gig Copper Strawman
> 
> 
> 
> Dan,
> 
> This is an interesting idea, but as a "marketing guy", my
> sincere opinion is that the market for 10Gigabit over 
> 16-conductor copper cable is very close to zero.
> 
> A closer analogy would be 1000BASE-CX, rather than 1000BASE-T.
> 1000BASE-CX also required a less than common cabling scheme, and
> has not achieved a high-volume position in the market. 
> 
> I have had literally zero users ask for 1000BASE-CX support,
> and I have talked to hundreds of users about Gigabit Ethernet
> technology, products and applications.  I anticipate the
> same behavior for 10Gig over a 16-conductor Cu cable.
> 
> What customers value even more for this class of application
> is compatibility, which 1000BASE-T delivers, and neither 
> 1000BASE-CX nor this proposal provide.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Les Poltrack
> Product Line Manager, Gigabit Ethernet
> Cisco Systems, Inc.
> 
> At 03:34 PM 11/18/99 -0700, DOVE,DANIEL J (HP-Roseville,ex1) wrote:
> >Hi All,
> >
> >I thought I would start the ball rolling for a technical concept by 
> >posting this strawman. If someone finds a serious problem 
> with it, please
> >respond. Cable vendors.. post IL, RL and NEXT curves. 
> Connector vendors..
> >do the same. Silicon vendors.. does it look feasible? 
> >
> >In the mean time, I am soliciting feedback from system 
> vendors and server
> >companies to provide a breakdown of copper versus fiber 
> links for their
> >high-speed switch connections. If you have data to share, please do.
> >
> >As I stated in the meetings, customers prefer copper when 
> they can save
> >money. We have seen a HUGE response to our recent 1000T 
> introduction by
> >customers who grudgingly used SX to attach our switches 
> together in the
> >wiring closet. I expect that as servers get 1000T NICs, we 
> will see a 
> >similar movement to copper in those applications. To 
> quantify a bit, I am
> >getting an HP marketing guy to put together some slides to 
> provide more 
> >solid numbers to back those statements up.
> >
> >Let's get this ball going!
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Dan Dove
> >
> >___________     
> _________________________________________________________
> >_________    _/    ___________  Daniel Dove         
> Principal Engineer __
> >_______     _/        ________  dan_dove@xxxxxx     LAN PHY 
> Technology __
> >_____      _/           ______  Hewlett-Packard Company      
>           __
> >____      _/_/_/ _/_/_/  _____  Workgroup Networks Division  
>           __
> >____     _/  _/ _/  _/   _____  8000 Foothills Blvd. MS 5555 
>           __
> >_____   _/  _/ _/_/_/   ______  Roseville, CA 95747-5555     
>           __
> >______        _/      ________  Phone: 916 785 4187          
>           __
> >_______      _/      _________  Fax  : 916 785 1815          
>           __
> >__________  _/ 
> __________________________________________________________
> >
> >
>